Speaker positioning

NotAGolf · 21 Oct 2015 at 21:42

I'm re-jigging the layout of my living room and I'm having a problem deciding on where to place my front speakers.

The problem is being caused by the fact that the width of my tv unit will need to be narrower than it is currently. So even if I can find one that's wide enough and that I like the look of (which I'm struggling with), the front speakers will be right next to the TV (see red in picture below).

The other alternative is to mount them up near the ceiling (see blue) which gives more space between them but not sure if it will sound odd a) being up high, and b) being so far away from the centre speaker.

Thoughts?

lucid · 21 Oct 2015 at 22:24

Neither opting is great, but you know that already. Of the two then red wins for me. There won't be much stereo separation, but at least there won't be the gaping sonic hole that blue will produce.

Captain Fizz · 22 Oct 2015 at 11:11

What I did was find the best place for the stereo where the Sofa could be opposite then wall mount the telly in the middle.

If you are re-jigging the living room, best opportunity to put the TV / Speakers first, then fit everything else round them ^.^

dl8860 · 22 Oct 2015 at 11:54

Any chance you could move the stand to the left a bit, and put speakers on stands?

NotAGolf · 22 Oct 2015 at 12:56

lucid said:
Of the two then red wins for me. There won't be much stereo separation, but at least there won't be the gaping sonic hole that blue will produce.

What does this 'sonic hole' mean?

Captain Fizz said:
What I did was find the best place for the stereo where the Sofa could be opposite then wall mount the telly in the middle.

The way we have it currently is best for vision/sound, but it severely limits sofa positioning so it's a choice between audio quality or forcing friends to sit on the floor when they come over. You know which one I chose of course.... but then the wife butted in....

dl8860 said:
Any chance you could move the stand to the left a bit, and put speakers on stands?

I've thought about this, but the speakers are only small (Tannoy TFX 5.1) so I think will look ridiculous on separate stands, and it will only gain an extra foot (two tops) of separation as well.

Bone9 · 22 Oct 2015 at 18:52

So do you have 5.1 or only 2.0?

dl8860 · 22 Oct 2015 at 19:23

Ah, if they are only diddly then you could fix one to the end of the bannister!?

NotAGolf · 22 Oct 2015 at 19:30

Bone9 said:
So do you have 5.1 or only 2.0?

5.1

dl8860 said:
Ah, if they are only diddly then you could fix one to the end of the bannister!?

I probably could but I think it will look pretty naff

lucid · 22 Oct 2015 at 19:35

mpledge52 said:
What does this 'sonic hole' mean?

If you went to watch an acoustic band play live then you'd see the positions of the musicians and hear sound coming from each position. A good recording would capture that spacing. If your speakers are placed correctly then it's possible to recreate the audio illusion of space and position. We call this imaging. When the speakers are placed too far apart then the imaging effect is ruined. The sound never combines correctly at normal listening levels. In effect you hear you the two halves of the sound separated by a gap in between where there's no sound. That's a "sonic hole."

Having the speakers too close means they won't image correctly either, but it at least sounds like the sound is coming from one central position rather than two distinct areas.

In a 5.1 system the sound is designed to both image and to follow the action within a scene. For example, a car drives across the camera's point of view then you hear it pan from say left to right. The wider the speakers are placed apart horizontally then the harder it is to make the audio illusion work. Having the front left and right speakers placed high in the corners of the room is the worst case scenario. It may look neat but sonically it is a disaster. There's another issue too concerning the relative heights of the centre and L & R speakers. The ideal is to have all three front speakers at ear height when seated. That's often not possible though for practical reasons; usually the centre speaker is below the TV. With the L & R speakers up high in the room corners (even if the correct width apart) then the panning effect sounds unnatural. It starts very high up (room corner), then drops low (under TV) then goes high again. We hear this discontinuity in the position of the sound as a give-away that something isn't right. The closer you can get the relative heights of the fronts then the more convincing movies will sound.

Bone9 · 22 Oct 2015 at 21:06

If you're using a centre speaker I'd have them at the blue option pointing to the main seating area.

NotAGolf · 23 Oct 2015 at 13:31

lucid said:
If you went to watch an acoustic band play live then you'd see the positions of the musicians and hear sound coming from each position. A good recording would capture that spacing. If your speakers are placed correctly then it's possible to recreate the audio illusion of space and position. We call this imaging. When the speakers are placed too far apart then the imaging effect is ruined. The sound never combines correctly at normal listening levels. In effect you hear you the two halves of the sound separated by a gap in between where there's no sound. That's a "sonic hole."

Having the speakers too close means they won't image correctly either, but it at least sounds like the sound is coming from one central position rather than two distinct areas.

In a 5.1 system the sound is designed to both image and to follow the action within a scene. For example, a car drives across the camera's point of view then you hear it pan from say left to right. The wider the speakers are placed apart horizontally then the harder it is to make the audio illusion work. Having the front left and right speakers placed high in the corners of the room is the worst case scenario. It may look neat but sonically it is a disaster. There's another issue too concerning the relative heights of the centre and L & R speakers. The ideal is to have all three front speakers at ear height when seated. That's often not possible though for practical reasons; usually the centre speaker is below the TV. With the L & R speakers up high in the room corners (even if the correct width apart) then the panning effect sounds unnatural. It starts very high up (room corner), then drops low (under TV) then goes high again. We hear this discontinuity in the position of the sound as a give-away that something isn't right. The closer you can get the relative heights of the fronts then the more convincing movies will sound.

Thanks. That's a really useful explanation