Spec me a CCTV System

Sirrel Squirrel · 28 Dec 2013 at 09:57

What's a good CCTV system to go for, I need a couple of cameras outside the house with good IR coverage and up to 14 days storage capacity. I've seen systems from Securix, Swann and Storage Options and they all look pretty similar but range from around £150-£250.

Would one of these be the best way to go or could I do something with IP cameras and a NAS?

zoomee · 28 Dec 2013 at 10:43

Forget that Swann generic rubbish mate.

Get yourself a decent AVTECH unit with some 720TVL cameras. Avoid ebay as too many fakes.

AVTECH are awesome! - got some new 'push' setups now too

http://www.avtech.com.tw/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=138&Itemid=293&lang=en - Once hooked up to the web you've got access via a web browser or can use a program called EagleEyes from your smartphone/tablet too. Love mine

IP camera + NAS = too expensive.

peige · 28 Dec 2013 at 11:44

Swann stuff isn't rubbish, its good baseline stuff with app's available for androd and IOS and a sensible very configurable server.

I have the 16 channel swann unit at work connected to a whole load of different make cameras and its been running fine for more than a year. We do have a couple of swann cameras that are ok but found it best to buy single cameras and then try them, buy more if they are ok.
Our unit emails me if a camera goes down (or is disconnected) or if there are out of hours movement within configured zones.

CCTV is kept a bit of a dark art by the companies trying to sell you the kit, you have to look at the exact spec of the cameras to be sure, its very hard to compare like for like as they tend to hide behind different standards. You can spend a fortune on HD digital cameras but you really don't have to.

v0n · 28 Dec 2013 at 11:57

Go IP cameras, forget about analogue stuff regardless of TVL values. IP, progressive, pick best ratio of fps to resolution you can afford. PoE switch, single RJ45 to each camera, Panasonic or Vivoteck depending on budget. 300 quid won't buy much in current technology, especially in terms of capturing device or software, but if money is an issue, consider cheap nettop running debian or ubuntu with zoneminder and couple of decent USB webcams stuck to the windows.

bitslice · 28 Dec 2013 at 16:02

v0n said:
Go IP cameras, forget about analogue stuff

IP cameras are analogue cameras with an attached webserver. You are just paying for a convenient interface.

couple of decent USB webcams stuck to the windows.

OP requested external and IR coverage

Really need to know what the problem is before suggesting anything, different houses have different security issues. Not enough info in OP.
Take the above pictures, it you want to see a face from those high up locations you either need a zoom lens or higher resolution. If you can mount them lower then a less expensive camera can be used.

Caged · 28 Dec 2013 at 16:17

bitslice said:
IP cameras are analogue cameras with an attached webserver. You are just paying for a convenient interface.

Well, yeah. That's sort of the point - two way communications, intelligent motion sensing, no loss of quality due to interference or cable length, easier to install if you already have a wired LAN, a higher resolution than would otherwise be obtained using composite video etc. Obviously it's analogue at the start.

The OP doesn't have the budget for IP cameras though so it's irrelevant.

Sirrel Squirrel · 28 Dec 2013 at 16:50

Bit of back story is that I'm getting harassed by my in-laws neighbour because I parked outside his house one day for a couple of minutes and he took offence to it a year ago. Last night he followed me home and then today he attempted to key my car and slash the tyres but he got spotted before he was able to do anything but he got arrested and is currently sitting in a comfy cell

So basically I need the cameras to ensure that if he ever comes near my house or cars again I have him and his car on camera so I have more ammo for what I'm sure will be an upcoming court case.

I don't need anything fancy, just two cameras to monitor the front of the house and provide a clear picture day or night so that he can be identified.

zoomee · 28 Dec 2013 at 19:24

why I wouldn't recommend swann: http://console-cowboys.blogspot.com/2013/01/swann-song-dvr-insecurity.html

My apologizes if this is a re-post but has everyone heard about the vulnerabilities in Ray Sharp DVRs as well as rebranded DVR products by Swann, Lorex, URMET, KGuard, Defender, DEAPA/DSP Cop, SVAT, Zmodo, BCS, Bolide, EyeForce, Atlantis, Protectron, Greatek, Soyo, Hi-View, Cosmos, and J2000?

http://console-cowboys.blogspot.com/2013/01/swann-song-dvr-insecurity.html
https://community.rapid7.com/commun...sharp-cctv-dvr-password-retrieval-remote-root

Basically, if you use one of these devices, you probably ought not port-forward TCP 9000 from the internet unless you are restricting access by source. Changing this port might add a bit of security through obscurity but you'd still be totally vulnerable. Possible attacks include accessing clear-text admin passwords, creepy unauthorized access with said account, as well as using the DVR as a pivot point for attacking other internal network resources, e.g. your laptop, iPhone, PC, and whatever else. There's already a Metasploit aux/scanner module to discover vulnerable systems and dump the admin password.

As far as I know neither Ray Sharp nor the rebranders have responded to this. I wouldn't be surprised if they never do. I've always wondered how many inadvertent (vulnerabilities) and purposeful (backdoors) security issues there are in these ubiquitous, cheap, poorly-developed DVRs. I've had avtech and dahua DVRs myself. Although it's hard to beat the value of these cheap devices, it's just a matter of time before more and more of these severe remote vulnerabilities are found as they become more prevalent. Let's just hope that the good guys (researchers) find them before those who would use them for their own nefarious purposes.

Jake

Can't go wrong with either AVTECH or DAHUA boxes

Sirrel Squirrel · 1 Jan 2014 at 13:40

I've specced up the below system, which comes in at just under £300.

AVTECH 4 channel DVR D1 KPD675C
http://www.avtechcctv.co.uk/avtech-4-channel-dvr-with-realtime-d1-resolution-usb-kpd675c/

2 x 700TVL bullet Sony Sensor (Branded as Panther)
http://www.avtechcctv.co.uk/700tvl-bullet-sony-low-light-adjustable-2-8-12mm/

Plus cabling and power splitter.

Does this sound OK, different websites have different brands of camera but they all seem to use the same Sony sensor with the same focal lengths and IR distance, even the camera body looks the same.

Burnsy2023 · 1 Jan 2014 at 13:53

If you're going to get a CCTV system, make sure it's HD resolution. As someone who regularly has to review CCTV, I get fed up of so many brand new systems with such crappy image quality I can't identify anyone who has been captured. The higher resolution you have the better chances you'll be able to make out important details like car registration plates which make a huge difference to how useful the system is.

V F · 1 Jan 2014 at 14:53

Burnsy2023 said:
If you're going to get a CCTV system, make sure it's HD resolution.

That wont be less than £1,000?…

Twirlywoos · 1 Jan 2014 at 15:17

Burnsy2023 said:
If you're going to get a CCTV system, make sure it's HD resolution. As someone who regularly has to review CCTV, I get fed up of so many brand new systems with such crappy image quality I can't identify anyone who has been captured. The higher resolution you have the better chances you'll be able to make out important details like car registration plates which make a huge difference to how useful the system is.

My CCTV has expensive cameras for that very reason. Considering most residential burglaries occur at night having one that had good resolution and worked well in low lux conditions was priority to identify faces of criminals.

My cameras are also paired with decent triggers that sets of an internal CCTV alarm should someone enter the garden or front entrance at night. It's a shame that I can't link them to the LED floodlight as the trigger system on those turn on if the wind blows lol

I can review the front and back triggers daily/weekly etc and play back footage to when it went off. Thankfully I have never had to do that.

Consider the system an investment as low quality footage isn't really much help when playing back to the Police. In the day all CCTV footage looks decent.

zoomee · 1 Jan 2014 at 16:42

Sirrel Squirrel said:
I've specced up the below system, which comes in at just under £300.

AVTECH 4 channel DVR D1 KPD675C
http://www.avtechcctv.co.uk/avtech-4-channel-dvr-with-realtime-d1-resolution-usb-kpd675c/

2 x 700TVL bullet Sony Sensor (Branded as Panther)
http://www.avtechcctv.co.uk/700tvl-bullet-sony-low-light-adjustable-2-8-12mm/

Plus cabling and power splitter.

Does this sound OK, different websites have different brands of camera but they all seem to use the same Sony sensor with the same focal lengths and IR distance, even the camera body looks the same.

Good choice on the DVR - Don't worry about resolution as its a D1 set

Not sure about the cameras though as I've not had much experience with any other than the cruddy 420tvl one I have lol. I've got to get round to installing the other two cameras I've had sat here for a year now - just cba!!

Vimes · 1 Jan 2014 at 16:49

Initially I bought a 4CH DVR from eBay which recorded in full D1 resolution at 25fps. I popped a 2TB WD red and all was well. However I soon realised that I was a little limited on expansion and so I bought a 16CH version with the same recording capability. On reflection I might have been better with just a 8CH version as I have only coupled up 7 Dome cameras to cover our property. But it does leave me with spare capacity.

The cameras that I bought are all 700TVL but vary from 2-12mm zooms to fixed Array type cameras with 1/3 size CMOS sensors. Some I bought from a seller on eBay with a particular specified lens fitted, depending on where it would be situated to ensure appropriate coverage and adequate facial recognition etc. A few of the cameras have a joystick type control built into one of the leads to allow finer settings, such as when they flip to B&W and image correction etc. None of them are PTZ.
Coupled with the security floodlighting, activated via motion sensors, they do a pretty good job at capturing usable and meaningful footage.
Hopefully, with their visible infra-red night lights, they also act as a visible deterrent, whilst the least conspicuous also do a good job of grabbing some good video.

All the above, baulins, External Cat 5e cable, PSU's for the cameras etc were bought from eBay.
I have full 24/7 recording on all seven channels and motion detection marking on the recording etc. I have it set up to email me for video "blinding" or loss of video - if the cameras had their supply cut or the camera was covered up.

The above serves us well and I feel that it is more than adequate to help to harden the perimeter. I have noticed the fall in cost of HD CCTV but, as yet, it would be a little too costly for me to buy into that over that of what I have already. Although the general quality of the captured video can, depending on what is bought and how it is positioned, be seriously impressive over that of D1.

I have been speculatively looking at the Foscom FI9831W 1.3MP HD wireless camera, having noted that some people have these either at their window, with the infa red disabled, or even external but undercover.

Sirrel Squirrel · 1 Jan 2014 at 20:54

Thanks for the post Vimes, any chance you could post a screen grab of the output from one of your 2-12mm cameras, it's probably the same camera that I'm looking at.

Can anyone advise on a good place to buy kit from in addition to eBay and the link I posted above.

Thanks

Vimes · 1 Jan 2014 at 21:14

This is what I'm seeing now from the CMS software....

...with the cat tripping the security lights outside.

The roof camera has attracted a spider to build a web across it.! I will need to clean that away, they seem to be attracted to the infra red light.

the one below is a screen taken from my phone....

you can see that one of the cameras has flipped over to black and white due to the reducing ambient light.

I have only bought from eBay and I could list the sellers if that would help....?

The side, roof and back camera are both from a company called globeteck and are variable zoom. The others are from a chinese supplier who fitted lenses as I requested, he was very good and sent me a free replacement camera when one became faulty. They are the Array type camera with joystick control, to be used if you wish to fine tune them.

mattyg · 1 Jan 2014 at 21:28

Whats the recording quality like on all channels at once.

Vimes · 1 Jan 2014 at 21:32

It doesn't matter how many of the channels you are recording at once the quality is not compromised.

...within the red outline you can see that I'm using CBR and a high bitrate. The section on the right is for the mobile feed (for the phone etc).

Sirrel Squirrel · 1 Jan 2014 at 22:03

Thanks for the frame grabs, one thing that concerns me is that on the CMS view I can't read any of the car number plates, this is something that I'll need to do, when you view the channel at full res can you make out the number plates?

Vimes · 1 Jan 2014 at 22:15

You can have a look over at some of the CCTV footage uploaded at Youtube to give you some idea of what D1 is capable of. Also check out this site for some sample and further information (albeit they are expensive to buy from)....

http://www.cctv42.co.uk/

...look under the CCTV and DVR buyers guide.

This one specifically for the car number plate reading....

http://www.cctv42.co.uk/camera-buying-guide.aspx

If you look at the angle to the vehicles my cameras are set-up for they are at an angle to the cars number plate as they are covering more of the section of forecourt on the property. Also it is a little dusk when the phone one was taken and the infra red light does reflect off a number plate ( I assume), the light coming from the CCTV camera.
I have found that number plates can be quite reflective to the cameras light when they are on, but I have never needed to consider that when I was installing the system.

@Gangster - The system that I have has been assembled from components bought from eBay and not from a single source. Take a look at the link I posted as it will give you an idea of what you need and its cost. eBay is much cheaper but caveats, naturally, apply..