Spec me a CCTV System

[TNA]

Do you want IP or HDCVI? For the cameras I linked to, IP would be about £600+VAT, HDCVI would be about £500+VAT. But that doesn’t include installation.



Yes. You just need enough to reach each camera. Or there are 4G/LTE options available. But bear in mind they must be powered and the easiest way to do that is over the video feed cable whether that’s HDCVI or PoE.



No, zoom only. If you want full Pan/Tilt/Zoom at 4K then you’re looking at about £800 per camera, 2MP full PTZ is about £275 these days and 4MP PTZ with auto-track is about £400 or £500 with 4G built-in. But then you’re talking about 25-50x optical zoom and features that wouldn’t be out of place in spy films.



Yes, any Dahua DVR or NVR will do that via VPN link. Hikvision also have very similar products.

Thanks for the reply.

I am still not 100% getting the difference between IP and HDCVI. Looks like going NVR and using IP cameras might be a good idea for me. As I understand the ethernet cable would provide the power also.

Yeah. Maybe forget about PTZ

 

[WJA96]

If

Thanks for the reply.

I am still not 100% getting the difference between IP and HDCVI. Looks like going NVR and using IP cameras might be a good idea for me. As I understand the ethernet cable would provide the power also.

Yeah. Maybe forget about PTZ

As a user, whether the system moves the image data across an analogue or digital system is basically irrelevant. Before digital cameras there were analogue cameras and they transmitted data in analogue formats over ço-axial or simple twisted pair (bell-wire) cables. And they recorded the images to video tapes. When digital CCTV cameras came on the market they were criticised for being horribly pixelated and slow to update images. As digital cameras got better, the people who produced analogue cameras saw the writing in the wall and introduced digital cameras with digital to analogue converters (HDCVI). So you have a digital camera sending analogue signals down a CO-AX cable. And then the analogue signal is turned back into digital to be recorded onto a hard disk.

There are two main benefits to HDCVI. It is backwards and forwards compatible with existing analogue cabling and new digital cabling. And it doesn’t suffer from latency as badly as purely digital IP systems. There is also another benefit in that in a digital world, you can’t hack a camera that doesn’t have an IP address. But as most of the digital video recorders have network connections they are as vulnerable as anything else to being hacked.

So the initial query about upgrading an existing system was met with ‘rip it all out because the image quality is bad’ when the correct answer was ‘you can reuse your existing wiring but you’ll need to replace the cameras and probably the recorder OR you can rip it out and start again’.

And the current range of HDCVI cameras have PoC (power over cable) so it works exactly the same as iP cameras in that respect.

 

[TNA]

If


As a user, whether the system moves the image data across an analogue or digital system is basically irrelevant. Before digital cameras there were analogue cameras and they transmitted data in analogue formats over ço-axial or simple twisted pair (bell-wire) cables. And they recorded the images to video tapes. When digital CCTV cameras came on the market they were criticised for being horribly pixelated and slow to update images. As digital cameras got better, the people who produced analogue cameras saw the writing in the wall and introduced digital cameras with digital to analogue converters (HDCVI). So you have a digital camera sending analogue signals down a CO-AX cable. And then the analogue signal is turned back into digital to be recorded onto a hard disk.

There are two main benefits to HDCVI. It is backwards and forwards compatible with existing analogue cabling and new digital cabling. And it doesn’t suffer from latency as badly as purely digital IP systems. There is also another benefit in that in a digital world, you can’t hack a camera that doesn’t have an IP address. But as most of the digital video recorders have network connections they are as vulnerable as anything else to being hacked.

So the initial query about upgrading an existing system was met with ‘rip it all out because the image quality is bad’ when the correct answer was ‘you can reuse your existing wiring but you’ll need to replace the cameras and probably the recorder OR you can rip it out and start again’.

And the current range of HDCVI cameras have PoC (power over cable) so it works exactly the same as iP cameras in that respect.

Thanks for that info. That really helps.

You seem rather knowledgeable about all this stuff. Which would you recommend keeping in mind my use case? My initial thought was cat6 cabling might be more future proof.

Regarding the hacking, I think only way to stop that is not to have in connected to my network, but then I would not be able to view anything on my phone or get the data sent to be stored at another location.

 

[psd99]

good discussion but also great to know that those BNC cables in my wall are good enough to keep there.

 

[WJA96]

Thanks for that info. That really helps.

You seem rather knowledgeable about all this stuff. Which would you recommend keeping in mind my use case? My initial thought was cat6 cabling might be more future proof.

Regarding the hacking, I think only way to stop that is not to have in connected to my network, but then I would not be able to view anything on my phone or get the data sent to be stored at another location.

I wouldn’t recommend one system over the other. The nice thing about the IP cameras is, if you know anything about networking, then you’re right in your comfort zone. As regards the anti-hacking, the benefits of HDCVI relies on a REALLY determined hacker physically disconnecting your camera then reconnecting via a loop or switch and hacking you from inside your own network because it’s trivial to read the username and password from most IP cameras. The response to that is I’ll use VLANs, but if the attacker is inside your network they can guess the VLAN tag and they’re in. Then folks use untagged VLANs but there are exploits published against those too. So it’s fairly unlikely but if you had a use-case where security was paramount, then you’d probably still want HDCVI because it’s ultimately unhackable.

With regard to suggesting actual equipment, I would need to know distances, angles, heights of potential mounting locations. If you want to see the bottom of your garden 60m away there is no point specifying a 40m IR camera. If you want to cover your side gate then a narrow lens is good etc. etc. A proper installer would do a site survey before suggesting equipment. That said, the Dahua cameras I linked to should cover most eventualities.

 

[BogEyes]

Hoping for some CCTV advice. I've read through the last 20 pages or so but thought I'd post too.

Bit a of backround, I've bought my first house just before the lockdown started, and a few weeks after moving here my house was egged, seemingly randomly. I was in the house at the time and it was somewhat alarming, given it's not even halloween! I suspect the adjoined neighbours are possibly to blame and that I may have further issues down the line...

So, I made a bit of an impulse purchase (after doing some brief research), and spent £315~ on a Reolink system from Amazon. It seemed to tick all of the boxes, in my uneducated cctv knowledgable mind.

It comprises of

https://reolink.com/product/rln8-410/

and four of these dome cameras

https://reolink.com/product/rlc-520/

What I'm asking is, is there a better value alternative to a system like this? I'd consider putting together an assortment of parts from different brands etc if anyone has any recomendations?

I haven't yet installed the system, and am still in the return window. I'm thinking, is there a way of getting this sort of spec for cheaper? Or, a way of getting a better spec for the same sort of price.

The house is a fixer upper and is currently a building site. I was planning on installing whatever system I use in the attic out of the way, having the cameras attached to the eaves overlooking the rear, driveway, and front (haven't figured out how to run a cable to the garage for the 4th).I was thinking I could just run a cable through the ceiling to my Gaming PC for viewing the footage.

For the record, I have no prior cctv knowledge so any help would be much appreciated.

 

[WJA96]

Hoping for some CCTV advice. I've read through the last 20 pages or so but thought I'd post too.

Bit a of backround, I've bought my first house just before the lockdown started, and a few weeks after moving here my house was egged, seemingly randomly. I was in the house at the time and it was somewhat alarming, given it's not even halloween! I suspect the adjoined neighbours are possibly to blame and that I may have further issues down the line...

So, I made a bit of an impulse purchase (after doing some brief research), and spent £315~ on a Reolink system from Amazon. It seemed to tick all of the boxes, in my uneducated cctv knowledgable mind.

It comprises of

https://reolink.com/product/rln8-410/

and four of these dome cameras

https://reolink.com/product/rlc-520/

What I'm asking is, is there a better value alternative to a system like this? I'd consider putting together an assortment of parts from different brands etc if anyone has any recomendations?

I haven't yet installed the system, and am still in the return window. I'm thinking, is there a way of getting this sort of spec for cheaper? Or, a way of getting a better spec for the same sort of price.

The house is a fixer upper and is currently a building site. I was planning on installing whatever system I use in the attic out of the way, having the cameras attached to the eaves overlooking the rear, driveway, and front (haven't figured out how to run a cable to the garage for the 4th).I was thinking I could just run a cable through the ceiling to my Gaming PC for viewing the footage.

For the record, I have no prior cctv knowledge so any help would be much appreciated.

The camera is MUCH less important than the installation location.

Possibly THE most important aspect of the camera is the field of view. Those cameras are 80-degree with a focal length of 4mm. You need to get your house layout and draw in the covered angles. Do you get the coverage you’re looking for? Infra-red is quoted at 30m but 20m is probably more realistic. Is that enough? Do you want. To be able to read number plates at night? If so IR cameras are very poor and you’d be better off looking at a full-colour night sensor camera. Either an extreme starlight or a proper full-colour low-light camera. The latter only really work if you either have GREAT street lighting or you’re prepared to run the built- in LED illuminations all night. If you have the right conditions, full-colour night vision is superb. If you don’t, you have a REALLY disappointing system!

Also beware of blinding your own cameras by pointing them at each other. You’d be surprised just how often that happens.

For a 6m install (Most house eaves are 6-8m) you probably won’t see a lot of faces. It will be quite a top-down view. That’s why you see so many cameras installed at about the 3-4m height. You may want to think about that, especially if you’re covering a back gate or front door.

There’s nothing wrong with the system you bought. If installed properly it will do the job for you.

 

[BogEyes]

Thanks for the response.

In terms of the location, I had decided on the eaves purely because I don't have any desire to drill through the inner and outer blockwork for each camera cable (after doing two 40mm waste pipes). I hadn't really considered they might be too high up.

Also, I was hoping to achieve a discreet solution if possible, and was thinking of having just a small hole for the lense to peek through. That wouldn't be possible on the walls.

In relation to mapping the layout for the FOV, I hadn't considered that either. I'll have a play around in Google sketchup now.

Talking about the cameras themselves then. Out the back, even installed at eaves heigh,t cars aren't visible due to the height of the fence. However, I have a conveniently (or possibly inconvenienly) placed Street light right behind the fance, so the back garden is sort of always lit up in the dark. Unless of course it went out, and before it comes on. So that could possibly influence what camera was most suitable there? Out the front it's relatively well lit too, bit darker as the street lamps are 'warm', and the one out back is 'white'.

There’s nothing wrong with the system you bought. If installed properly it will do the job for you.

This is good to know. Just wondered if I could get a better system for my money, or something similar for less on the reccomendation of someone 'in the know'.

 

[WJA96]

When you’re drawing the fov don’t forget to do a side elevation. 90-degree plus cameras are popular for a reason.

If I’m specifying a system I generally use 4K 2.7-12.8mm starlight+ cameras and I explain to the customer that on the 2.7mm setting they’ll see a huge amount but there will some fisheye distortion at the edges. I usually then put up as many as the budget allows. One on each corner for a general view and then one lower down to see the faces at each entrance/exit. I usually budget something like £250 per camera installed and £400 for an NVR which is usually a Synology NVR-1218 with 8Tb of hard drive these days. The £250 for each camera includes the cabling, a 100Mbps PoE switch and any trunking needed.

 

[psd99]

I got a flourean CCTV system, I had to upgrade the firmware to get motion detection working, I'm still toying around with it though. what are your experiences with motion detection? Got any tips?

 

[WJA96]

Motion detection is pretty basic functionality these days. The Camera knows what the scene is and if any bits of the scene change it’s “motion detection”. Generally systems now allow for ‘trip wires’ so if someone walks or drives across or through an area it alerts, or you get left item detection, or missing items detection. It should be very reliable. Flourean are right at the bottom end of the CCTV market, with the entire system costing less than one camera in many cases. As long as you’re happy I’m sure it will do the job for you.

 

[Siliconslave]

https://ipvm.com/reports/camera-design-tool-with-google-maps-integration is pretty useful for planning although its limited without an account...

 

[psd99]

Motion detection is pretty basic functionality these days. The Camera knows what the scene is and if any bits of the scene change it’s “motion detection”. Generally systems now allow for ‘trip wires’ so if someone walks or drives across or through an area it alerts, or you get left item detection, or missing items detection. It should be very reliable. Flourean are right at the bottom end of the CCTV market, with the entire system costing less than one camera in many cases. As long as you’re happy I’m sure it will do the job for you.

thanks so considering my setup with a flourean dvr, 8 x 720p cameras and bnc cables

what Makes/brands of cctv systems and cameras would you recommend for a potential upgrade that £500 - £750 would get me?
Obviously I want to keep the same cables

probably not urgent or desperate to upgrade. One for the future though

My system actually has a button to change from HD to SD haha i dont get why anyone wants SD.

 

[WJA96]

thanks so considering my setup with a flourean dvr, 8 x 720p cameras and bnc cables

what Makes/brands of cctv systems and cameras would you recommend for a potential upgrade that £500 - £750 would get me?
Obviously I want to keep the same cables

Dahua HDCVI cameras and recorders support data transport over ço-axial cables.

probably not urgent or desperate to upgrade. One for the future though

My system actually has a button to change from HD to SD haha i dont get why anyone wants SD.

If the HDD is tiny (and on your system it probably is) then you can easily quadruple recording time by dropping the resolution from 1920 x 1080 to 640x480 and most people don’t notice the difference unless you want to use digital zoom. I think people handily forget that even now an awful lot of people are watching SD TV and it doesn’t seem to have any impact on their ability to pick out who is who in East Enders.

Resolution is not the same as image quality. We have access to 8MP (4K) zoom cameras at the same price as 2MP (HD) fixed focus cameras but we still sell the 2MP camera because side by side the customers can see a massive difference in image quality with a large sensor 2MP camera in low light conditions. The reason they print the camera headline specs on the box is to entice people to buy the product. I’ve seen off-the-shelf Swann systems that couldn’t record a full day if all 8 cameras were running at their claimed resolution and fps.

 

[Nazbit]

Has anyone tried the Colorvu range?

I believe quite a lot of light is needed. I'm in the countryside so pretty dark at night.

It will be one side of the front door frame there is an LED lantern lamp on other side of the door way. Looking to cover an area about 2m wide and 5m long.

Do I have a decent chance of getting 24/7 colour or should I just go for another G1?

Thanks

 

[WJA96]

Has anyone tried the Colorvu range?

I believe quite a lot of light is needed. I'm in the countryside so pretty dark at night.

It will be one side of the front door frame there is an LED lantern lamp on other side of the door way. Looking to cover an area about 2m wide and 5m long.

Do I have a decent chance of getting 24/7 colour or should I just go for another G1?

Thanks

If you get the right ones, they have their own little spotlight. Also check out the new Dahua TIOC with their 40m ‘warm white’ lamps. They are the same power as the IR emitters but obviously it’s visible light. I also love the ‘it’s the police?’ red and blue flashing alarm lights that come on when an alarm is triggered. I’ve got some production samples coming on Friday (they only launched yesterday and I’ve been playing with a Pre-pro sample) and I’ll try and post up a video over the weekend. Being able to shout at people through the VERY loud speaker is also great fun.

 

[WJA96]

Can anyone recommend a suitable reasonable priced 1080p or there abouts indoor camera with RJ45 (Network) port as I need to source one for my work server room. We don't need cloud/Alexa etc just needs to be able to assign an IP to it, username/password etc then add it to our Synology NAS's surveillance station?

Ideally <£50

Do you need IR? If not send me a trust message and I’ll send you something that will do the job. Early on in my time I ordered some very nice (but indoor only, no IR cameras that are basically useless in 99.99% of any work I take on. If you can get some use from one of them you’re very welcome to it.

 

[Nazbit]

If you get the right ones, they have their own little spotlight. Also check out the new Dahua TIOC with their 40m ‘warm white’ lamps. They are the same power as the IR emitters but obviously it’s visible light. I also love the ‘it’s the police?’ red and blue flashing alarm lights that come on when an alarm is triggered. I’ve got some production samples coming on Friday (they only launched yesterday and I’ve been playing with a Pre-pro sample) and I’ll try and post up a video over the weekend. Being able to shout at people through the VERY loud speaker is also great fun.

Thanks. Look forward to seeing the clips.