Spec me a fun 2+2
- Thread starter mjt
- Start date
I'd get a Golf R Cabrio if I had to get something on that platform. Rare and hen's teeth so something special.
Auto only though, and 270bhp in a hatch is nothing these days though!
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I'll chime in with my experience if I may:
- The old model felt slow not so much because of it's low peak output, but because if had a bloody awful torque curve with a huge hole in the middle. The new one has a higher output, but more importantly, it's flattened that curve, meaning it feels much better in the mid range; there's no longer than frustrating feeling of acceleration feeling initially good, then dropping away until you reach high RPM again. I modified the old car to remove that torque hole, but the new car feels faster still. It is a much better experience with the increased displacement.
- That said, it is still fair to say that it is not a powerful car. Hustling it down a B-road, I really don't think you'd ever think it was slow. But on larger roads, you might still be concerned by a relatively low output - it's still an NA engine which needs to be worked hard to get the best out of it, so you might be disappointed if you're looking for something with a lot of oomph.
- Also, anecdotal, but it seems from dyno runs that the quoted power output (about 230bhp for Euro spec cars) is much more accurate, whereas there was a suspicion that a lot of the older models never made anywhere near their quoted 197bhp.
So if you're basing your opinion that it might be too slow on experience of the previous car, then I would say don't worry about it too much. But if you're looking for something objectively fast and powerful, then you might still want to look elsewhere.
As for the interior - well, can't argue with that. Again, it's an improvement over the previous model, but it is still a cheap interior with some scratchy plastics. In its defence, ergonomically it's spot on - driving position is great, it's relatively comfortable, important controls are all still analogue rather than on touch screens, and it has enough toys to make day-to-day use perfectly livable (auto LED lights, heated seats, cruise control, Android Auto/Apple Car Play, reversing camera, etc). But if you really can't stand cheap feeling interiors, then again, no point trying to convince you otherwise - your probably wont like the BR86.
I think its important to remember that one of the reasons that it's got so many accolades is because of the RRP. The GR86 is utterly fantastic because it offers a lot of fun for £30K. But if you're buying second hand, and can get hold of some of the other cars on your list for not much more, then it might be less appealing.
If you can, it would be best to try and get yourself a test drive if you can, because it's the kind of car you have to feel to appreciate - on paper it doesn't really sound impressive. But based on your basic requirements of "fun 2+2" and "£30-£40k", I would say it fits the bill nicely (although obviously I am biased
)Thank you for your input. Planning to drive a BRZ this week. You sum everything up nicely. I want fun, like I had in my Caterham. In the 270, you were never going fast enough to lose your licence, which is the same with the GR86/BRZ.I'll chime in with my experience if I may:
- The old model felt slow not so much because of it's low peak output, but because if had a bloody awful torque curve with a huge hole in the middle. The new one has a higher output, but more importantly, it's flattened that curve, meaning it feels much better in the mid range; there's no longer than frustrating feeling of acceleration feeling initially good, then dropping away until you reach high RPM again. I modified the old car to remove that torque hole, but the new car feels faster still. It is a much better experience with the increased displacement.
- That said, it is still fair to say that it is not a powerful car. Hustling it down a B-road, I really don't think you'd ever think it was slow. But on larger roads, you might still be concerned by a relatively low output - it's still an NA engine which needs to be worked hard to get the best out of it, so you might be disappointed if you're looking for something with a lot of oomph.
- Also, anecdotal, but it seems from dyno runs that the quoted power output (about 230bhp for Euro spec cars) is much more accurate, whereas there was a suspicion that a lot of the older models never made anywhere near their quoted 197bhp.
So if you're basing your opinion that it might be too slow on experience of the previous car, then I would say don't worry about it too much. But if you're looking for something objectively fast and powerful, then you might still want to look elsewhere.
As for the interior - well, can't argue with that. Again, it's an improvement over the previous model, but it is still a cheap interior with some scratchy plastics. In its defence, ergonomically it's spot on - driving position is great, it's relatively comfortable, important controls are all still analogue rather than on touch screens, and it has enough toys to make day-to-day use perfectly livable (auto LED lights, heated seats, cruise control, Android Auto/Apple Car Play, reversing camera, etc). But if you really can't stand cheap feeling interiors, then again, no point trying to convince you otherwise - your probably wont like the BR86.
I think its important to remember that one of the reasons that it's got so many accolades is because of the RRP. The GR86 is utterly fantastic because it offers a lot of fun for £30K. But if you're buying second hand, and can get hold of some of the other cars on your list for not much more, then it might be less appealing.
If you can, it would be best to try and get yourself a test drive if you can, because it's the kind of car you have to feel to appreciate - on paper it doesn't really sound impressive. But based on your basic requirements of "fun 2+2" and "£30-£40k", I would say it fits the bill nicely (although obviously I am biased
I know you love yours, and the fact you can actually have fun at sensible speeds, is what I'm looking for.
Yup, that's what I love about it. You feel like you get more opportunity to really experience the full breadth of the car's capability on the road.
Funnily enough, another car on your list really interested me too - the BMW M2. Same kind of formula, small coupé with a manual gearbox. Ultimately, it was a bit out of my price range anyway, and I never even bothered test driving one. But I have heard from a couple of other GR86 owners who have, who said that they prefer the GR; the BMW was faster, of course, but inert feeling in comparison, and needed to be driven much faster before being as fun. Which makes me feel a bit better.
One thing to add - the BRZ apparently does drive noticeably differently to the GR86. It has a different roll bar setup, and I understand it rides somewhat softer, and tends to understeer a bit more. Seems like it might have the more 'mature' experience. Can't comment having never driven one, just something I've read/seen from people who've driven both, so something to bear in mind.
Funnily enough, another car on your list really interested me too - the BMW M2. Same kind of formula, small coupé with a manual gearbox. Ultimately, it was a bit out of my price range anyway, and I never even bothered test driving one. But I have heard from a couple of other GR86 owners who have, who said that they prefer the GR; the BMW was faster, of course, but inert feeling in comparison, and needed to be driven much faster before being as fun. Which makes me feel a bit better.
One thing to add - the BRZ apparently does drive noticeably differently to the GR86. It has a different roll bar setup, and I understand it rides somewhat softer, and tends to understeer a bit more. Seems like it might have the more 'mature' experience. Can't comment having never driven one, just something I've read/seen from people who've driven both, so something to bear in mind.
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Associate
Someone posted a picture of a car seat bolted to the roll cage of a caterham on the Caterham Facebook group this week - maybe thats an option
If that's the picture I saw, I thought the seat was just propped onto the back as a joke.. Don't forget what day it was posted
Having driven one this morning on some soaking wet German mountain roads, I can say that it was rather enjoyable. Engines revs nicely and it's remarkably comfortable. The suspension isn't bouncy or hard at all.. The car is a little bit "slow", but it's massively improved compared to the GT86 - plenty of torque, etc.
This one had the Milltek sports exhaust which sounded much better than the stock one... Time to talk to the bank
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Caporegime
That was my biggest surprise with the GR86 is that it also doubles up remarkably well as a GT car. I did Brands Hatch and back in it last October which is a 300+ mile round trip. Cabin noise is a little on the high side but I was getting 43+ MPG on the motorway.
You can tell that they definitely skimped on the sound deadening, but it certainly wouldn't be a problem to do 100+ miles to get to some good roads, and drive back again.
Might need ear plugs just to drain out the drone, but an impressive machine no doubt, especially for the price!
The 1M is calling... Someone talk me out of it please
Soldato
Great car but cabin build quality isn’t as good as an M2.
Cabin quality isn't high on my priority list for once!
Soldato
No that’s fair. It’s just the feeling of shaking itself to bits that’s a little unnerving when pushing on
Such a big step up from the old one, I couldn't believe it. It's even good enough for a dailyThat's settled then...BR86 it is!
Is it special enough though? A part of me is also saying **** the kids and getting an Elise. S3 220s and the like are bloody expensive though!
No, probably not to be fair. It's a great car, but it's still relatively mundane. As I said, never forget that the RRP is a lot of what makes it so appealing; at £30K new, it's fantastic, but much more than that and it probably cant compete with more special, second hand stuff.
That's what making the choice so difficult. It's incredibly good value for money and will cost me nothing other than tax, insurance & depreciation as it will be a new car with a very long warranty.
Anything else - 1M, M2, Elise, Caterham, etc. will be €10-20k more without a doubt, and that's purchase price alone.
Head over heart this time perhaps?
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