Spec me a laptop/tablet for the Mrs

Mockingbird · 6 Dec 2013 at 13:50

Hello folks,

My dear fiancee has an elderly steam-powered laptop that annoys the crap out of her. It's several years old, but it's labouring under the yoke of Vista and general age, and is basically a bum egg. I'm not even going to fire it up to check the specs to see if it's worth upgrading, as I'm sure it's not.

It takes ~20 minutes from power-on to reach "usable" state sometimes - worse if there are software updates to do, or the moon is in the wrong phase. I would like to replace it as a nice surprise for her.

Usage:
Storing music collection/itunes - All music is already on her iPod, and I have a NAS set up to keep a copy, but part of me wants as many copies as possible as a redundancy thing, so a device that could still store a load of music is preferrable. CD purchases are becoming rarer, and can be ripped from my main PC, so not having a CD drive is not an issue.

Getting photos from camera over USB, rotating/cropping/tweaking them and saving them to an elaborate series of nested directories the NAS.

General web stuff (including ordering loads of photo prints from Snapfish).

Office stuff - word processing etc (she's using it to design invites for our wedding for example).

Currently most stuff is backed up to the NAS and regularly also backed up to a USB portable hard drive from the laptop.

My thoughts:
A tablet could do MOST of this stuff - and for the web browsing (probably the most frequent use) it would be lots more convenient. Also, touch-screen fun times - I can imagine once you own a tablet you find a million things you can do with it that you just didn't know about.

I don't know of a tablet, however, that would play well with the camera (standard USB, Nikon in case drivers are a thing), and I imagine doing any office work on it will be unpleasant with the onscreen controls, but that may be inaccurate.

My main PC (or HTPC) could be used for some of this stuff, but since most of the time it's an activity done in the background while we're watching movies/TV together neither of those is terribly practical (main PC wrong room, HTPC uses the TV as a screen).

A basic laptop would probably work, but might be just as slow/hateful as the current one - I really have no clue what the field's like at the moment. A more up-to-date laptop would probably be a lot more expensive. A cheap netbook would almost work, but the screen size would (I assume) be horrible for photo manipulation.

Budget is quite variable, but let's start with "somewhere around £290" and see if that's even viable.

So...

What would you advise I go for? Have I underestimated the flexibility of a tablet? If so, Android or iPad or other? Would a basic laptop be too crap to bother with?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.

eddyc · 6 Dec 2013 at 16:08

I am of the opinion that tablets are not ready to be used as main devices yet. You aren't going to be able to use a tablet to store itunes and sync to ipod. There aren't many tablets where you can plug in a camera and drag photos across via usb.

On the other hand the budget of £290 isn't going to get you much in terms of laptops. A couple of options might be:

Asus X551CA - available for £280
Toshiba Satellite Pro C50-A-166 - also £280

If you want touch screen then I've seen an Asus X102BA Touch Laptop for £282 (although it is exdisplay).

Those should be better than the current one but none include an SSD or any kind of hybrid drive so you can't expect the best experience.

If you are after the tablet experience then you could consider the Asus Transformer T100. It is over budget at £340 but gives you a proper laptop experience on one hand and a tablet on the other, both in the same device. The only downside for your purposes would be the small internal storage. You would be looking at an extra £40 for a 64GB SD card to bump up the internal space and then probably you would still need to keep most of your stuff on an external drive.

The other alternative would be to upgrade the current laptop. For example:

£75 for upgrade to Windows 8.
£130 for Crucial M500 240GB SSD
£30 ish for new battery

This would completely transform the current laptop and have it running at the max of its potential.

Clearly I don't know how old/crappy it is but so long it is at least dual core with 2+GB of RAM then it should run Win 8 no problem.

But no matter what killer SSD you stick in, if it is a really old single core or if it is too heavy etc then nothing much is going to change that.

Hope that helps.

Caracus2k · 7 Dec 2013 at 09:40

Had a friend approach me recently wanting advice re buying a new laptop because their old Vista machine was so slow. Along the same lines as Eddy suggested that and SSD and a newer copy of windows would work wonders. Spent £130 on a new SSD and windows 8 and gave my friend back a fast responsive laptop. You wont get an SSD in a new laptop for anywhere near £290 and for general usage an older laptop with an SSD will give a better user experience that a newer laptop with a mechanical drive. I agree with eddy that you will probably find a tablet limiting so +1 for upgrading the old laptop from me (assuming its basic spec is good enough)

Mockingbird · 7 Dec 2013 at 12:29

Thanks for the replies.

Basic spec is:
http://www.toshiba.co.uk/discontinued-products/satellite-l300-1aq/
CPU:
type : Intel® Centrino® processor technology featuring Intel® Core 2 Duo Processor T5800, Intel® GM45 Express chipset and Intel® WiFi Link 5100
clock speed : 2.00 GHz
front side bus : 800 MHz
2nd level cache : 2 MB

GPU: Mobile Intel® GMA 4500MHD

2Gb DDR2 800

Not knowing laptop processors at all, shall I give the SSD and new windows a go or is it a lost cause?

kefan77 · 7 Dec 2013 at 12:46

while not utterly bad, I wouldn't use it.

SSD would certainly help, but if you're planning new Windows, you might as well buy new laptop with warranty that comes with it.

there's plenty of <£300 laptops out there.

Glaucus · 7 Dec 2013 at 15:02

If you can go a bit more, surface 2 ( http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-gb/products/surface-2 ) or lumia 2520 (http://www.nokia.com/gb-en/phones/tablet/lumia2520/ )would be a great chooice, with fall office (what does she design them in?) on it. And at a latter date you can get the keyboard case for them.

Surface 2 has a full sized usb and will talk fine with pretty mcuh any usb debice. The lumia has a micro usb, so would need an adapter or buy a new cable.
Surface has a kickstand which is fantastic, while lumia wins marginally in benchmarks, and has the best screen of any device for outside use in sunlight.
Both have sd card slots for expanded storage.
The lumia has mobile internet, surface 2 doesnt.
These are both rt so you cant run normal windows software.

You can go and have a play with both in a certain store.

You culd also have a look at the dell venue pro 8, but its only 8" so isnt the best at office tasks, hwever it is cheaper and can install any windows software on it.

Caracus2k · 8 Dec 2013 at 04:55

kefan77 said:
while not utterly bad, I wouldn't use it.

SSD would certainly help, but if you're planning new Windows, you might as well buy new laptop with warranty that comes with it.

there's plenty of <£300 laptops out there.

Not with an SSD included there isn't. Outside of playing 3d games (where you may benefit from the far better GPU's on modern laptops) an older laptop with and SSD upgrade will (in my subjective opinion) provide a better user experience that a new laptop, most likely with a slow mechanical 5400rpm hard drive in it.

There are a few questions to consider.

other than running slowly in what condition is the old laptop? If it ran quicker would you otherwise be happy with it?

How much storage do you need on the laptop and could you re use the old laptop hard drive in a cheap USB enclosure to fill the gap?

Do you need some of the extra items on a newer laptop (eg HDMI out, USB3, touch screen etc)

How much do you want to spend? As per my above post a good 64gb SSD and a copy of Windows 8 will be under £130. Add another 2gb of memory for around £20 - £25 (you will have to check how your current memory is allocated - ie 2 * 1gb DIMMS or just one with a slot spare) and you will have spent £150 compared to a newer laptop at £300+ with a slower mechanical hard drive included (laptops with SSD's including tend to start at around £600 - £700) - albeit that the mechanical hard drive would have far more space than the SSD - likely a 500gb - 750gb drive but unless you intend to store a lot of media on the machine itself would you use that amount of space?

Are you happy upgrading new memory/ SSD and installing windows on the old laptop or would you rather not do this yourself (its a pretty simple job BTW)?

Would your prefer the warranty provided with a new laptop over the warrant on the new parts only if you upgrade?

As above when someone asked me about buying a new laptop and I established that they did not require anything other than a quicker hard drive and a better OS than Vista (for a lower spec machine) I suggested an upgrade over a new laptop and saved them a lot of the money they would have otherwise of spent on a new laptop.

I would advise against a surface 2 or Nokia 2520 at this time as the indicators are that Microsoft will kill Windows 8 RT pretty quick. The release of windows 8.1 (non RT) laptops like the Asus T100 has pretty much made RT redundant and there has never been much 3rd party support for the OS which will not run legacy/ non RT apps or programs. Its a shame as the hardware (especially on the Nokia 2520) looks pretty good

Glaucus · 8 Dec 2013 at 11:32

There is zero indication they will kill rt quickly except in opinion pieces backed up with nothing at all. What they are likely to do is merge winrt and wp8 in 2014 (this it what rumors and leaks are pointing to, nothing at all has leaked or sugested they will kill it off ). Before merging winrt and win8 in 2015, to get to what they have always said they wanted, a true unified system.

Not been much support? ~150k apps of which only 5000 cant run on rt.

Rt wiill do everything he needs, as long as its office he designs stuff in.

Caracus2k · 9 Dec 2013 at 06:32

Going wildly off topic now but...

Larson-Green, who is executive vice-president of Devices and Studios at Microsoft, said that the aim of Windows RT was "our first go at creating that more closed, turnkey experience [that Apple has on the iPad]…" but that Microsoft now has three mobile operating systems: "We have the Windows Phone OS. We have Windows RT and we have full Windows. We're not going to have three."

You could take that either way but they have recent previous for not offering an ongoing support path with a similar OS (Windows phone 7). Whichever way you look at it when combined with the sales figures RT has been a flop and why would you want a 'closed' 'turnkey' experience when it has already been pointed out that 'full' windows 8.1 is available for less with a much more assured future and compatibility with a much larger range of apps and full programs

Mockingbird · 9 Dec 2013 at 10:15

Thanks very much for the detailed replies. I've tried to answer the questions below:

Caracus2k said:
other than running slowly in what condition is the old laptop? If it ran quicker would you otherwise be happy with it?

Yep - the screen/keyboard/touchpad/case are all in reasonable condition, and it's never used on battery.

Caracus2k said:
How much storage do you need on the laptop and could you re use the old laptop hard drive in a cheap USB enclosure to fill the gap?

I think an ~120Gb SSD will have enough space after a windows install. Failing that, the old drive could be repurposed cheaply enough. I imagine a 64GB would be a bit of a squeeze (how big's Win 8.1?)

Caracus2k said:
Do you need some of the extra items on a newer laptop (eg HDMI out, USB3, touch screen etc)

No to all the above. Touchscreen on a laptop I see as a token, rather than useful, thing. USB3 - we don't have any USB3 peripherals nor do I anticipate acquiring any any time soon. always uses the built-in screen.

Caracus2k said:
How much do you want to spend? As per my above post a good 64gb SSD and a copy of Windows 8 will be under £130. Add another 2gb of memory for around £20 - £25 (you will have to check how your current memory is allocated - ie 2 * 1gb DIMMS or just one with a slot spare) and you will have spent £150 compared to a newer laptop at £300+ with a slower mechanical hard drive included (laptops with SSD's including tend to start at around £600 - £700) - albeit that the mechanical hard drive would have far more space than the SSD - likely a 500gb - 750gb drive but unless you intend to store a lot of media on the machine itself would you use that amount of space?

The initial estimate of £290 is because that's what's in the account I have set up to save towards this. If I can keep it under that, the rest can go in the 'flowers' account (or the upgrade-my-own-PC account, or the 'this needs fixing on the house' account...)

Caracus2k said:
Are you happy upgrading new memory/ SSD and installing windows on the old laptop or would you rather not do this yourself (its a pretty simple job BTW)?

Yep, I've built PCs for years, so a bit of RAM and a drive swap should be a peice of cake. What's been holding me back is a complete lack of knowledge about laptops. I have no clue whether that processor's so out of date it'll be throwing good money after bad, if you see what I mean. I also wasn't sure if a laptop this old will have driver support under a newer windows, as I understand laptops are a bit more vendor-reliant compared to desktop systems.

Caracus2k said:
Would your prefer the warranty provided with a new laptop over the warrant on the new parts only if you upgrade?

Not really - if it's worth saving I'm happy to take take that on myself.

Glaucus · 9 Dec 2013 at 21:02

Caracus2k said:
Going wildly off topic now but...

Larson-Green, who is executive vice-president of Devices and Studios at Microsoft, said that the aim of Windows RT was "our first go at creating that more closed, turnkey experience [that Apple has on the iPad]…" but that Microsoft now has three mobile operating systems: "We have the Windows Phone OS. We have Windows RT and we have full Windows. We're not going to have three."

You could take that either way but they have recent previous for not offering an ongoing support path with a similar OS (Windows phone 7). Whichever way you look at it when combined with the sales figures RT has been a flop and why would you want a 'closed' 'turnkey' experience when it has already been pointed out that 'full' windows 8.1 is available for less with a much more assured future and compatibility with a much larger range of apps and full programs

Half truth and miss information.

No you can not get full 8 for less. Look at the price of venue pro 11 for example.
And thats with inferior screen, inferior batteries, inferior design and still comes out more.
Then unless the manufacture takes a hit you have to buy office on top off that.

As for apps, that depends what you use it for, being able to run traditional apps isnt a bonus if you arent going to. Nothing the op has said requires traditional apps, assuming he uses office for those creative tasks.

Then read everythiing else that has been released and its not being terminated at all. Nothing but opinion pieces to back that assumption up. On top of that the threshold leak on SKU version still has a winRT version(modern). Which backs up all the other leaks, that winrt and wp8 will be merged. Sometime before threshold then merges windows modern(winRT +wp8) and windows 8.

This modern SKU would be the SKU for Windows Phones, ARM-based Windows tablets/PCs, phablets and other kinds of tablets. Some PCs also may run this SKU, providing Microsoft with a more head-to-head competitor to Chromebooks, as these machines would be more secure and locked down (thanks to the way Microsoft built the WinRT/Windows Store model).

Caracus2k · 10 Dec 2013 at 07:29

Glaucus said:
Half truth and miss information.

No you can not get full 8 for less. Look at the price of venue pro 11 for example.
And thats with inferior screen, inferior batteries, inferior design and still comes out more.
Then unless the manufacture takes a hit you have to buy office on top off that.

As for apps, that depends what you use it for, being able to run traditional apps isnt a bonus if you arent going to. Nothing the op has said requires traditional apps, assuming he uses office for those creative tasks.

Then read everythiing else that has been released and its not being terminated at all. Nothing but opinion pieces to back that assumption up. On top of that the threshold leak on SKU version still has a winRT version(modern). Which backs up all the other leaks, that winrt and wp8 will be merged. Sometime before threshold then merges windows modern(winRT +wp8) and windows 8.

You can buy an Asus T100 with 'full' windows 8.1 and with a keyboard for £329.99 the 32gb surface 2 without a keyboard is around £350 and the 2520 is £400 again without a keyboard. Please therefore explain how you cannot get 'full 8' for less (at that's before you throw in a keyboard!). You can argue about the respective build quality but the rest of your points seem a bit mute.

Oh and btw the t100 includes office in the price!

Caracus2k · 10 Dec 2013 at 07:45

Glaucus said:
Which backs up all the other leaks, that winrt and wp8 will be merged. Sometime before threshold then merges windows modern(winRT +wp8) and windows 8.

I think you will find that merging ARM based windows phone 8/widnowsRT and traditional x86 windows will prove practically impossible given the mutual incompatibility of the hardware. I think MS intend to present a unified customer experience across two operating systems (ie one for x86 hardware and one for ARM based devices).

Nothing is confirmed yet however.

Given the increased power and battery life of x86 hardware I cant really see the point going forward in investing in a Windows RT tablet.

Glaucus · 10 Dec 2013 at 08:25

And as pointed out even the asus is far worse, lower screen resolution, lower screen qaulity, lower battery qaulity, slower charge rate, poor build qaulity (like all assus products) etc.

Theres a lot of point, arm is very dominant in the mobile sector and will continue to be. Thry have to keep an arm product for phones. Next year it looks very much like they will combine them to match apple. Two app stores, two OSs. Then in 2015 make one app store which runs on anything.

Investing in a winrt tanlet, does everything most people need, ots save, ots being supported and you get a hell of a lot more for you money, with better hardware and design. There's lots of reasons togo winrt over x86. Theres only one reason to go x86 and thats if you need traditional apps, which many people wont if they are looking at a current tablet replacment. Ipads and androids have hoot a huge market without said traditional apps.

I habe an ipad and a laptop. I have two routes and it all depends on money. Replace both with an i5 tablet which will be best part of a grand, or go winrt. Atom doesnt allow me to run any traditional apps that I would want to, basically games. Where an i5 would. So being an x86 system holds no weight as it simply wouldnt be used for tradtional apps(apart from office which is included), it would be a direct ipad replacment. And unlike the x86 version. They are a hell of a lot better hardware, the lumia has the topp screen of any. 600+nit is just amazing, let alone when you think how important the battery and charge rates are. The atom tablets just arent in the same class at the moment. Now if MS or nokia made an atom tablet with same screens, batreys, speakers etc. then we could have a good comparison, but then the price difference would increase massively. They go cheap on the other components to keep the price down and even so DEll still cant get cheap.

Mockingbird · 10 Dec 2013 at 09:51

As much as I enjoy a good debate, I saw there were new posts in my thread and am sad to see they are not maybe 100% super relevant. Boo!

Looks like I'll do a bit more research and try a RAM + SSD upgrade. Initial googlings seem to suggest there are no Win 8 drivers for some components so I may have to go win 7. Can I assemble a driver suite for 8.1 from individual chipset makers etc like I would if building my own desktop, or do I need to rely on Toshiba to release a package?

Caracus2k · 10 Dec 2013 at 13:52

Which components don't have drivers? You may find that the drivers are already there with windows 7 / 8. I had not problems putting windows 8.1 on my own hp dv5-1110em od a similar age as yours and on a dell laptop formally running vista. Neither needed any additional drivers.

Mockingbird · 10 Dec 2013 at 14:31

Hmm... May just jump into 8 then.

eddyc · 10 Dec 2013 at 15:41

You can run the Windows 8 upgrade assistant and it will tell you if your hardware is supported... drivers etc:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8

I think you have now decided but given that you have said that £290 is a hard limit for your budget and that you have said that the current laptop is in reasonable condition then I think an upgrade is certainly your best option vs a new device.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

krnsniper · 12 Dec 2013 at 18:56

If you could stretch your budget - get the surface 2 PRO it is literally a tablet that replaces a laptop.