Spec me a mechanical diesel engine?

[-Mike-]

Hey all,

This is more of a boating question but : I'm looking for a car engine which is reliable and mainly mechanical for a boat transplant.

The boat currently has an old ford 2.5D engine which not only drinks fuel, but from the information I've found produces a pathetic 76hp at its peak output.

We're looking for an engine suitable for marinisation and really I'm after any suggestions here -

The only current candidate is the XUDT peugeot lump, if anyone has any other suggestions it would be much appreciated

 

[-Mike-]

The only other thing I can think of is the Isuzu 1.7TD, but the XUD is a better diesel lump anyway.

XUD is really really great.

However volkswagen 1Z or AHU is just as reliable and marginally better on juice in my experience.

This is in cars however. In boats maybe XUD might be a little simpler as it doesn't have an ECU like the vw lump?

Kind Regards

Alec

Anything without an ecu is a lot better. The idea with the XUD/XUDT lump was that all it needs is power to its stop solenoid and then it'll run.

I'm considering that we can take the glow plug relay setup from the donor car too, essentially taking out the guess work required. (The ford doesn't have glow plugs and every other engine we've ever had in the few boats has had them. The BMC 1500 certainly demanded massive glow time for it to be interested in starting.

The Rover L series is a very good mechanically injected diesel engine. It's predecessor, the "Perkins Prima", was quite popular for marine use though I don't know if the L series has been used to the same extent.

Note that a turbo-diesel will have rather different torque characteristics to the old normally aspirated 2.5, so check that the gearing and/or propeller pitch will be suitable.

A previous boat we had, was fitted with a perkins 4108 engine. This lump was horribly noisy and it had a very interesting way of starting :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFvK9FOZl4w

(Watch over at the left hand side of the engine - single injector spray over a hot glow plug!)

The only thing that concerns we with the straight diesel is whether it will be more lacking than the 2.5 that comes out. I know the 1.9 makes 70 hp which is probably in reality, more than enough for the boat but I think we need to speak to some specialists in regards to marrying it up to the Z Drive anyway.

Thanks for your replies and help so far though guys!

 

[-Mike-]

What boat is it that needed a Transit engine ?
If you are looking for good MPG then the smaller the better, You'd be surprised at how small an engine you can get away with.
For availability, cheapness & long life you can't fault the XUD engine though & I would go normally aspirated as well as there's no need for a turbo. Simple wins on boats every time.

I'm trying to find out the model for you, depends on when I get a reply from my uncle. I personally would rather fit it with a 1500 BMC, but my uncle isn't keen on them compared to the more modern diesel. (Probably the fact that you have to crank them over for half a minute to get them to start!) Disturbingly I like the sound of them though

Other than price saving, what's the difference between fitting a car engine and marine engine?

Just ebayed Marine Diesel engine, first hit was a 43k Royal Navy unit.

Buy that

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROYAL-NAV...at_Engines_EngineParts_SM&hash=item4ab50d32e1

That engine would probably sink his boat mate With some engines there is no difference, the BMC 1500 diesel engine is one that was fitted to many vehicles and early taxi's. That engine simply has a few parts such as cooling system changed and its good to go in a boat. I believe they were also in Morris Marina's.

You can buy marine only lumps but a lot of people have a marinised xxx engine in a pleasure boat.

 

[-Mike-]

4T5 - Its a cleopatra 23 ft

 

[-Mike-]

In a boat, would be it be safer to have a non-turbo version? Just conscious that a turbo failure might be a little more unpleasant when instead of having pull onto the hard shoulder, that you might need to row a 23' boat.

The sea is one big hard shoulder, just a shame that the RAC won't come out to you You have a good point, from further research the turbos get incredibly hot when confined to an engine box.

IIRC that's the same engine as the early Vauxhall Combi van and they are capable of 1/4 million miles no issues

Indeed, they were also in the cav td and my friends was on 300k when he sold it

 

[-Mike-]

I haven't seen many of the XUD lumps with the bosch fuel pump. Normally seem to have lucas (cav)

 

[-Mike-]

Indeed, both of my 306 engines had Lucas pumps (both xudt).

What sort of age VW engine are we talking for one that doesn't rely on an ecu?

 

[-Mike-]

Just rang the local breakers and they want £300 for a 150k mile old engine....

 

[-Mike-]

Hey mate,

I used to get an average of 50-60mpg out of my 306. 1800 rpm as a figure is pretty much perfect as thats about where we tend to sit whilst steaming out.

I think for the noise reduction (over the transit) the XUD (non T) lump would be better and possibly both easier and more reliable. I'm guessing if we altered its fueling a little that it would make somewhere near the whole 76hp of the 2.5 transit?

 

[-Mike-]

Swapping from a Lucas to a Bosch pump is only a couple of hours work though.



Both engines in the 406 use an ecu controlled pump so will be no use in a boat.

I didn't know that.

the non turbo is 65hp according to my 806 handbook

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/peugeot/306/hatchback-1993/

The 1.9D in the 306 is 70 afaik and according to reviews so I don't know what they changed there.

 

[-Mike-]

Really not sure why you wouldn't just use a marine diesel for this?

Look at any of the old, time served fishing boats. Many of them had the BMC 1500 diesel (which you'd be horrified at - you don't get much more agricultural than those). Whilst noisy, they are supremely reliable and use very very little fuel. The same can be said for the Peugeot XUD lump. You had one of these engines and I know how 'bad' it is in comparison to a modern engine, but they are fantastic for boat use.

For me it's a question of money and I like to work on engines. I have and old bmc 1.8 engine and would like to use a more modern economic engine.
Most merine engines are start life in a tractor, van or car. And are then marinized for use in a boat.

We did get this sorted in the end. The transit engine went to the scrap yard in the sky. The 1800 BMC is nowhere near as economical as the 1500 BMC. My granddad whilst alive had a few different engines fitted to his fishing boat. The 1500, 1800 and 2200 varieties. He went back to the 1500 in the end as it had almost all of the power of the 1800, and liked fuel a lot less.

We had looked at fitting the 1.9 XUDT lump (turbocharged) instead of the XUD (NA engine) but decided that due to the size of the engine box that the turbocharged lump would suffer more with the increased heat. There was also the issue of cooling the charge as the xudt is set up to run with an intercooler (albeit an inefficient engine top mounted one as standard in the 306, or a front mount in the xantia).

I can't remember off the top of my head who made the conversion bits and pieces that were needed, but they were a well known company and I'll ask him when he's back from Greece for the info if you want it.

The engine runs fine, and we mated it to the typical run of the mill bowman heat exchanger. The sea water pump was connected to where the vacuum pump traditionally connected on a road use engine (right hand side of the head if looking at the engine with the fuel pump at the front).

This chap did a conversion as well, our final product was much the same but the air filter is not a cheap max power job on ours - to try and stop the engine ingesting hot air!.

I think you probably could marinise a turbocharged version, perhaps with a charge cooler should you so desire it. As you're aware though, the 1.8 BMC makes very low power compared to the 70hp provided by the Peugeot engine. We find the boat makes much better progress now, and the engine doesn't need to be worked nearly as hard as with the BMC!

 

[-Mike-]

No, the BMC 1.5 was too small for that boat. We went with a 70,000 mile old XUD lump from a Citroen ZX. If you do fancy the conversion my only advice is change the glow plugs. You'll regret it if you don't at some point. These engines like heat, and the last thing you want to be doing is dragging a boat battery down to start it from long cranks!