Spec me an HTML editor

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I want an WYSIWYG HTML editor. I know I should really be doing the code myself in Notepad, but I'm too lazy, and I find HTML too tedious to code. :p

Ideally, the editor shouldn't be Frontpage - apparantley this adds a lot of needless code, and I'm pretty picky about file sizes. :o
 
i've never found a WYSIWYG that i've liked. what's the point in WYSIWYGging something when you're just going to have to mess about with it in a browser to get it right anyway. best just to spend a bit of extra time going through and doing it by hand.
 
I certainly agree with Sic, plus you'll like what you're creating if it's totally your own creation.

Firefox with developer toolbar + Notepad++ = Goodness :)
 
I know I should really be doing the code myself in Notepad

Lol, no you shouldnt at all. Believe me. Been a professional developer all my career started of on web design and still do a lot of that sort of work. You use notepad to tweak existing code but the thought of coding a site from scrtach in notepad is laughable. Possible totally, but so is walking from lands end to John o Groats but its a lot faster by car!

For HTML stuff, Dreamweaver is unbeatable, for anything heavie use VS 2005 and .NET, ignore all the PHP stuff, .NET makes it look like a joke language.
 
durbs said:
For HTML stuff, Dreamweaver is unbeatable
that made me laugh out loud, Dreamweaver's amazing ability to name every function '.layer1, .layer2' sure is useful when going back to things, such as editing the css - you want to be naming things yourself so you know where your design is going and how to fix it.

Dreamweaver bloats things, but if you're fine with an inaccessible website then go for it. :)
 
RandomTom said:
that made me laugh out loud, Dreamweaver's amazing ability to name every function '.layer1, .layer2' sure is useful when going back to things, such as editing the css - you want to be naming things yourself so you know where your design is going and how to fix it.

Dreamweaver bloats things, but if you're fine with an inaccessible website then go for it. :)

Dont want to be funny, but your site has some inaccessible low visible grey/silver text links. :rolleyes:

http://www.upleft.co.uk/
 
RandomTom said:
that made me laugh out loud, Dreamweaver's amazing ability to name every function '.layer1, .layer2' sure is useful when going back to things, such as editing the css - you want to be naming things yourself so you know where your design is going and how to fix it.

Dreamweaver bloats things, but if you're fine with an inaccessible website then go for it. :)

As he says he's a professional developer, he won't be using the wysiwyg features....
I would assume he means using the dreamweaver interface to code - instead of using notepad.

At least that's what I do.
 
dazsly said:
Dont want to be funny, but your site has some inaccessible low visible grey/silver text links. :rolleyes:
Oh yeh, I need to upload the latest version of that, that was the initial redesign that's got some rubbish things still, like the poor gif, and old portfolio. :)
 
Sic said:
i've never found a WYSIWYG that i've liked. what's the point in WYSIWYGging something when you're just going to have to mess about with it in a browser to get it right anyway. best just to spend a bit of extra time going through and doing it by hand.
To be perfectly blunt, I really can't be bothered learning HTML.

I'm the type of person who learns by seeing results - then I take it apart, and see what does what. :o
 
Most people start off that way. Then eventually realise the downside of wysiwyg and get into hand coding. It's at that point you tell everyone else to hand code from the start - forgetting that you learnt the very same way they want to start..
 
basmic said:
I want an WYSIWYG HTML editor. I know I should really be doing the code myself in Notepad, but I'm too lazy, and I find HTML too tedious to code. :p

Ideally, the editor shouldn't be Frontpage - apparantley this adds a lot of needless code, and I'm pretty picky about file sizes. :o

I think lots of programs put extra code in like front page - dreamweaver certainly does.

In my experience the easiest way to get a website live is to use something like dreamweaver - then once live you'll start looking into code a lot more.

I first started off making websites back in 1999, i learnt HTML and build my first website using notepad and sams teach yourself HTML4.0 in 24hrs. I built a second website and then got bored because of how long it took me to do it by hand.

In 2004 the opportunity came up to build another website, and so i enrolled on a 6 week dreamweaver course, last year i did a more indepth dreamweaver, but flahdreamweaver course and this year i'm doing another course with more stuff not just dreamweaver, but flash, photoshop, imageready etc..I'm now starting to get more interested in code again have been learning about CSS and XHTML - I've been able to build 3 webistes very quickly using dreamweaver, god know how long it would have taken me to do it by hand!

Anyway, a good program to try before shelling out lots of money on dreamweaver is NVU it's open source so give it a try here
 
Personally I *love* Dreamweaver coding "mode" It does make writing XHTML darn easy (auto complete done properly is a godsend)
 
durbs said:
Lol, no you shouldnt at all. Believe me. Been a professional developer all my career started of on web design and still do a lot of that sort of work. You use notepad to tweak existing code but the thought of coding a site from scrtach in notepad is laughable. Possible totally, but so is walking from lands end to John o Groats but its a lot faster by car!

For HTML stuff, Dreamweaver is unbeatable
A "professional developer" with experience in web design who describes the concept of hard coding a website "laughable?" I must say thats a first for me.

If you're a complete novice who just wants to throw together a quick site for your local cricket club, go ahead and use a WYSIWYG application. The code produced will be horrible, bloated and about as semantic as a chocolate teapot. Of course, chances are your visitors aren't going to care, and neither will you.

If you intend on creating a proper website, on the other hand, or would like to get into web design as a career, forget WYSIWYG. I find it absolutely shocking that someone who claims to have been involved in web design compares the use of WYSIWYG applications as opposed to hand coding as driving a car as opposed to walking "from lands end to John o Groats." I know, with the knowledge under my belt, that I would run a mile if I saw a "professional" web design company using WYSIWYG applications. Scratch that, I probably wouldn't make it past ten meters I'd be laughing so hard.

It is not possible to achieve anywhere near the same results as you get from hand coding a website with a WYSIWYG application. If you were an experienced web designer, you would not find it easier to use a WYSIWYG application, and I hope I never come across a web designer who uses WYSIWYG applications because they are "easier" and "get the same results." You simply cannot compare the two methods of creating a website.

I don't know about you, but I write beautiful code. Everything I write (with regards to HTML and CSS) is semantic and well-laid out. It makes sense. I use unordered lists for navigation and correctly leveled headers. I don't touch the line-break tag and I wouldn't even think about placing a non-contextual image inline. It's all about separating content from style. Find me a WYSIWYG application which can do that, all along naming attributes correctly and making the code as easy to update as possible, and I'll eat my hat. Such an application does not, and will never (or not until computers can use common sense) exist.

durbs said:
ignore all the PHP stuff, .NET makes it look like a joke language.
That's the biggest load of rubbish I've read since... well, since ten minutes ago when I read the first half of that post.

av. :)
 
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