Speeding Advice

AmDaMan

AmDaMan

AmDaMan

Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
4,023
Location
Wellington, NZ
Hi,

I thought I may have been clocked by a mobile speed camera a while a go (about 3/4 weeks) but was unsure. Anyway I thought I was in the clear until today, where i've received a letter saying i've failed to send my NIP back!! I've never recieved one though, so how can this be checked? Do they send it recorded? Are the envolopes time stamped?

Cheers.
 
I'm afraid you're in the poo. Not receiving the NIP is, for some mind-bogglingly stupid reason, not an excuse for not replying to it.
 
It is sent non recorded first class post to save money. You should get a second NIP with the reminder I would fill that out ASAP as you don't want to get charged with not supplying the drivers details which comes with 6 penalty points and a large fine.
 
Unfortunately the Post Office Act declares that and mail sent first class is legally deemed to have arrived within 10 days of sending.

You, I and everyone else know that this is rubbish, but it's still legal.

My GF fell foul of this quite badly a while back, first thing we heard about it was a court summons nearly 6 months after the "offence" The most annoying part was it was for 35 in a 30 on a dual carriageway in Bristol in the early hours of the morning. They summonses her for both failure to supply info as required under S172 (carries a £1000 fine and 6 points) and for the speeding offence.

Under the advice of a lawyer she was told to send the summons back pleading not guilty to S172 and guilty to speeding. Ended up with a £90 fine (plus £15 victims of crime surcharge) and 3 points.
 
I wonder if it can work the other way? Claim you sent the completed form back, and if they didn't receive it, that's their problem. It won't work, and will almost certainly make things much worse for you, but it might be satisfying to highlight just how hypocritical and unfair the system really is.
 
SlyReaper said:
I wonder if it can work the other way? Claim you sent the completed form back, and if they didn't receive it, that's their problem. It won't work, and will almost certainly make things much worse for you, but it might be satisfying to highlight just how hypocritical and unfair the system really is.
Click to expand...

I was thinking this exact same thing :D
 
SlyReaper said:
I wonder if it can work the other way? Claim you sent the completed form back, and if they didn't receive it, that's their problem. It won't work, and will almost certainly make things much worse for you, but it might be satisfying to highlight just how hypocritical and unfair the system really is.
Click to expand...

The problem is that they will have some sort of proof of postage, you won't.

I am amazed that the 'beyond reasonable doubt' does not include postal reliability. The royal mail themselves state that 99.92% of letters get delivered safely. So that is 1 letter in 1250 that gets lost. Given the number of NIPs that get sent out there must be some that get lost.

You can ask for proof of postage with any letter at no charge. It simply states that you sent a letter to a given address on a given day.
 
Phone them up (DVLA I assume, or the policemenofficers) and say you never recieved the NIP, if they would send you another you're more than glad to send it back to them asap.

And if being polite doesn't work just kick up a massive fuss on the phone.
 
Edit: ^^^ The reminder letter these days will almost certainly contain the words "Notice of Intended Prosecution" and include an S172 request, meaning that the reminder itself counts as a NIP.

Make sure you get a certificate of posting that says you sent it to them and sent it 1st class (or higher, I guess). Keep a copy of the filled in S172 request and store it in compliance with the rules of admissibility of evidence, and take it to court, cite the appropriate section of the Post Office Act.

Then hope that the magistrate actually gives a damn and isn't in a bad mood that day.

However since the summons will include both S172 failure to furnish drivers details AND the original speeding offence, that will then be taken as an admission of guilt to the original speeding offence.

One thing that could get interesting is that there is a 6 month timeout on speeding offences. they have to be submitted to court within 6 months (the court can then sit on them for as long as they like) so I guess if you nominated someone else, they wouldn't be able to send a NIP to that person. Not sure if they can send them a court summons though.

I have not tested this. I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. Nothing in this post should be construed as encouraging you to falsify evidence or lie on an S172 as both of those are criminal offences and carry much higher penalties than speeding.
 
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