Soldato
I figured I'd write this since there are lots of threads at the moment asking the same damn question, if people find it useful maybe it could get stickied? I'll also appreciate any additions and corrections that people can think of.
I got flashed as I drove towards a camera, am I going to get done
If the flash was white, that means it's a Gatso or Redspeed camera, these are only type approved for taking photos of the rear of the car, so no
If the flash was magenta (and often invisible) then it's a TruVelo camera which are type approved for taking photos of the front of the car. Congratulations the camera has taken a picture of your car (this does not mean that you are going to get done, keep reading)
I got flashed after I drove past the camera, am I going to get done?
This is the opposite of the above, a white flash means gatso or redspeed which means a picture has been taken. You should also have noticed ruler markings in the middle , or at the edges of, the lane you are in. There need to be 2 flashes 0.5 seconds apart and the ruler is used to determine how far you travelled in that 0.5 seconds. If the camera only flashed once then you are safe.
What about camera vans (talivans)?
These typically use a combination of video and radar and are manually operated. The officer operating them has to first "form the opinion that the vehicle was speeding" then they can point the radar at you, the video records what the radar is pointing at and the reading from the radio is superimposed onto the video. The video is merely secondary evidence with the primary evidence being that the officer thought you were speeding.
This does not mean that you have to be going stupidly fast before they pick up on you, these guys are paid to sit in a van day in day out and they tend to be bloody good at judging speed. If you were speeding they probably got you.
Was that van I passed a talivan or ANPR
If the van had a bunch of police cars/bikes parked up after it then it was almost certainly ANPR. Also if the camera was pointing through tinted glass then it is not a Talivan as you can't use the system through tinted glass (not sure if normal glass is OK or not)
There was a talivan driving down the road and I didn't realise until I overtook it, will I get done
No, at least not unless they pulled you over. They only run the equipment while stationary since it's illegal to carry passengers in the back of a moving van
I was doing 35 miles per hour in a 30, will I get done?
This depends, firstly all car speedos overread from the factory they are allowed to overread by up to 10%, they are not allowed to underread at all. Manufacturers tend to aim for 5% so as to allow the most manufacturing tolerances. Other factors can affect the level of overread including how worn your tyres are. If you have access to a GPS of some sort then you will want to test how accurate your speed it. Find a flat, straight road with a speed limit higher than whatever speed you are testing, drive at a constant speed, give the GPS a few seconds to catch up and then check it to see what your actual speed was...
Ok, so I was only doing 33mph, will I get done?
Probably not. It varies from force to force but the majority of them use the 10% + 2mph rule from the ACPO guidelines, so the minimum speeds that will see them take action are: 35 in a 30, 46 in a 40, 57 in a 50, 68 in a 60 and 79 in a 70. If you were below this then you are unlikely to hear anything about it.
I was doing more than 35 in a 30, will I get done?
Most likely yes, unless they make a mistake, or the camera had no film in it, etc. etc.
How much is it going to cost me?
Depends, police forces deal with the majority of speeding offences via a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty (CO), this is offered to anyone who was doing less than 26mph over the speed limit (so 55 in a 30 is the upper limit, 95 in a 70). Providing you don't take the option to take it to court, and providing you pay up within the 28 days they give you, the Fixed Penalty is 3 points on your licence and a £60 fine.
Oh crap, I was doing 96 in a 70, guess I'm going to court then, how bad will this be?
This is pure luck of the draw in many ways, depends on how grumpy the magistrate is and whether they are the kind of person who thinks that all speeding drivers are child killers. The maximum they can impose is 6 points and a £1000 fine. On top if this a £15 victims of crime surcharge is added and also court and prosecution costs can be added. The police do use some very expensive lawyers if it's a complicated case. In one example the court costs were over £30,000. Basically the system is set up so that if you try to challenge it and lose, it will cost you.
What about Speed Awareness, can I do that instead of the points
Generally only low speeds are eligible for this, exactly how low is different for each police force, some forces still do not offer speed awareness at all. They will send you an invitation, most likely with your Conditional Offer, if you are eligible. You are only allowed to do Speed Awareness once every 3 years. You may as well take it if you are offered it, there is no point saving your one chance for your next offence.
How do I know if I'm eligible for Speed Awareness
It's hard to say. Every force works differently. Some of them do things like send out the NIP on coloured paper if you are going to be offered Speed Awareness. This is to help them in the office, not to help you and should not be regarded as a statement saying you can do Speed Awareness. Some forces also use coloured paper for high speeds, so if you were doing 96 in a 70 and get coloured paper you're not going to get Speed Awareness, if you were doing 79 and get coloured paper than maybe you are. You could always ring them up and ask.
NIP? CO? SA? What's all that about?
The basic process is that the police will send you a Notice of Intended Prosecution, a NIP, asking you to identify the driver, typically yourself. Once you have admitted to being the driver this NIP becomes evidence of your "crime" and you will then either be sent a Speed Awareness invitation, a Conditional Offer (3 points, £60) or a court summons. Some forces like to save on paperwork so they send out a combined NIP and CO. If you get one of these you can send in your driving licence and payment along with the admission of your guilt and get it all over with in one go. Likewise some forces like to combine the CO and the Speed Awareness offer into one letter so you should read it carefully.
So if I don't admit to being the driver, or I nominate someone else, I can get away with the speeding charge, right?
Maybe, but they will do you for failure to furnish the driver's details when requested if you don't return the NIP correctly filled in, and if you nominate someone else there's a good chance you'll end up getting done for perverting the course of justice. The former can be 6 points and £1000 fine, the latter can include jail time. Plus if they managed to prove you were the driver without your admission they could get you for the speeding charge too.
I passed the camera two weeks ago and haven't heard anything, am I safe?
Maybe. The police have up to 14 days to put a NIP in the post and send it to the address that the DVLA have as the registered keeper. If it is your car, and you haven't recently bought it, and you haven't recently moved house then chances are the police will have sent it to the correct address. Allow a couple of days for postage but you're probably ok.
If it's a company car then the form will be sent to your employers, who will then be legally obliged to grass you up, they have 28 days to do this and then the police have another 28 days to send you a NIP, so that's up to 70 days. If it's a company car that is leased, then the police will send the NIP to the lease company, who will grass up your company, your company will then grass you up and finally you will receive a NIP. This could theoretically be up to 126 days if everyone drags it out for the maximum possible length of time.
Also if the DVLA give the police duff information, the court will rule that that isn't the fault of the police and the 14 day limit will not apply, so if you've just moved house or just bought the car and the DVLA haven't updated their records yet, expect it to take longer
So is there any time limit at all?
The police have a maximum 6 months to serve files to the court for prosecution for a speeding offence. Even then the court can take their time to send you a summons. That said if they haven't found you within that 6 months there probably isn't a lot they can do though the courts (If we have a magistrate here, I'd like to clarify this one)
I got a ticket, I may or may not have been speeding. I want to try and fight it
http://www.pepipoo.com/
Note that legal aid is not available for speeding cases.
I think this system is a load of crap and ought to be stopped, what should I do?
These guys could use some donations
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/
http://www.abd.org.uk/
I think this system is wonderful, what should I do?
GTFO
Seriously though, you probably want to join this lot
http://www.brake.org.uk/
http://www.roadpeace.org.uk/
So I ended up with points on my licence, is there anything else I should know.
Your insurance company may require you to inform them immediately. Check your policy documents. Certainly when you get your renewal through you will need to tell them as the price they give you will be based on your previously clean licence. A single speeding ticket is unlikely to increase your insurance very much though as these days everyone has them so it is no longer considered a major risk factor.
Thanks: Jeff Lynne, BigglesPiP, [TW]Fox
I got flashed as I drove towards a camera, am I going to get done
If the flash was white, that means it's a Gatso or Redspeed camera, these are only type approved for taking photos of the rear of the car, so no
If the flash was magenta (and often invisible) then it's a TruVelo camera which are type approved for taking photos of the front of the car. Congratulations the camera has taken a picture of your car (this does not mean that you are going to get done, keep reading)
I got flashed after I drove past the camera, am I going to get done?
This is the opposite of the above, a white flash means gatso or redspeed which means a picture has been taken. You should also have noticed ruler markings in the middle , or at the edges of, the lane you are in. There need to be 2 flashes 0.5 seconds apart and the ruler is used to determine how far you travelled in that 0.5 seconds. If the camera only flashed once then you are safe.
What about camera vans (talivans)?
These typically use a combination of video and radar and are manually operated. The officer operating them has to first "form the opinion that the vehicle was speeding" then they can point the radar at you, the video records what the radar is pointing at and the reading from the radio is superimposed onto the video. The video is merely secondary evidence with the primary evidence being that the officer thought you were speeding.
This does not mean that you have to be going stupidly fast before they pick up on you, these guys are paid to sit in a van day in day out and they tend to be bloody good at judging speed. If you were speeding they probably got you.
Was that van I passed a talivan or ANPR
If the van had a bunch of police cars/bikes parked up after it then it was almost certainly ANPR. Also if the camera was pointing through tinted glass then it is not a Talivan as you can't use the system through tinted glass (not sure if normal glass is OK or not)
There was a talivan driving down the road and I didn't realise until I overtook it, will I get done
No, at least not unless they pulled you over. They only run the equipment while stationary since it's illegal to carry passengers in the back of a moving van
I was doing 35 miles per hour in a 30, will I get done?
This depends, firstly all car speedos overread from the factory they are allowed to overread by up to 10%, they are not allowed to underread at all. Manufacturers tend to aim for 5% so as to allow the most manufacturing tolerances. Other factors can affect the level of overread including how worn your tyres are. If you have access to a GPS of some sort then you will want to test how accurate your speed it. Find a flat, straight road with a speed limit higher than whatever speed you are testing, drive at a constant speed, give the GPS a few seconds to catch up and then check it to see what your actual speed was...
Ok, so I was only doing 33mph, will I get done?
Probably not. It varies from force to force but the majority of them use the 10% + 2mph rule from the ACPO guidelines, so the minimum speeds that will see them take action are: 35 in a 30, 46 in a 40, 57 in a 50, 68 in a 60 and 79 in a 70. If you were below this then you are unlikely to hear anything about it.
I was doing more than 35 in a 30, will I get done?
Most likely yes, unless they make a mistake, or the camera had no film in it, etc. etc.
How much is it going to cost me?
Depends, police forces deal with the majority of speeding offences via a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty (CO), this is offered to anyone who was doing less than 26mph over the speed limit (so 55 in a 30 is the upper limit, 95 in a 70). Providing you don't take the option to take it to court, and providing you pay up within the 28 days they give you, the Fixed Penalty is 3 points on your licence and a £60 fine.
Oh crap, I was doing 96 in a 70, guess I'm going to court then, how bad will this be?
This is pure luck of the draw in many ways, depends on how grumpy the magistrate is and whether they are the kind of person who thinks that all speeding drivers are child killers. The maximum they can impose is 6 points and a £1000 fine. On top if this a £15 victims of crime surcharge is added and also court and prosecution costs can be added. The police do use some very expensive lawyers if it's a complicated case. In one example the court costs were over £30,000. Basically the system is set up so that if you try to challenge it and lose, it will cost you.
What about Speed Awareness, can I do that instead of the points
Generally only low speeds are eligible for this, exactly how low is different for each police force, some forces still do not offer speed awareness at all. They will send you an invitation, most likely with your Conditional Offer, if you are eligible. You are only allowed to do Speed Awareness once every 3 years. You may as well take it if you are offered it, there is no point saving your one chance for your next offence.
How do I know if I'm eligible for Speed Awareness
It's hard to say. Every force works differently. Some of them do things like send out the NIP on coloured paper if you are going to be offered Speed Awareness. This is to help them in the office, not to help you and should not be regarded as a statement saying you can do Speed Awareness. Some forces also use coloured paper for high speeds, so if you were doing 96 in a 70 and get coloured paper you're not going to get Speed Awareness, if you were doing 79 and get coloured paper than maybe you are. You could always ring them up and ask.
NIP? CO? SA? What's all that about?
The basic process is that the police will send you a Notice of Intended Prosecution, a NIP, asking you to identify the driver, typically yourself. Once you have admitted to being the driver this NIP becomes evidence of your "crime" and you will then either be sent a Speed Awareness invitation, a Conditional Offer (3 points, £60) or a court summons. Some forces like to save on paperwork so they send out a combined NIP and CO. If you get one of these you can send in your driving licence and payment along with the admission of your guilt and get it all over with in one go. Likewise some forces like to combine the CO and the Speed Awareness offer into one letter so you should read it carefully.
So if I don't admit to being the driver, or I nominate someone else, I can get away with the speeding charge, right?
Maybe, but they will do you for failure to furnish the driver's details when requested if you don't return the NIP correctly filled in, and if you nominate someone else there's a good chance you'll end up getting done for perverting the course of justice. The former can be 6 points and £1000 fine, the latter can include jail time. Plus if they managed to prove you were the driver without your admission they could get you for the speeding charge too.
I passed the camera two weeks ago and haven't heard anything, am I safe?
Maybe. The police have up to 14 days to put a NIP in the post and send it to the address that the DVLA have as the registered keeper. If it is your car, and you haven't recently bought it, and you haven't recently moved house then chances are the police will have sent it to the correct address. Allow a couple of days for postage but you're probably ok.
If it's a company car then the form will be sent to your employers, who will then be legally obliged to grass you up, they have 28 days to do this and then the police have another 28 days to send you a NIP, so that's up to 70 days. If it's a company car that is leased, then the police will send the NIP to the lease company, who will grass up your company, your company will then grass you up and finally you will receive a NIP. This could theoretically be up to 126 days if everyone drags it out for the maximum possible length of time.
Also if the DVLA give the police duff information, the court will rule that that isn't the fault of the police and the 14 day limit will not apply, so if you've just moved house or just bought the car and the DVLA haven't updated their records yet, expect it to take longer
So is there any time limit at all?
The police have a maximum 6 months to serve files to the court for prosecution for a speeding offence. Even then the court can take their time to send you a summons. That said if they haven't found you within that 6 months there probably isn't a lot they can do though the courts (If we have a magistrate here, I'd like to clarify this one)
I got a ticket, I may or may not have been speeding. I want to try and fight it
http://www.pepipoo.com/
Note that legal aid is not available for speeding cases.
I think this system is a load of crap and ought to be stopped, what should I do?
These guys could use some donations
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/
http://www.abd.org.uk/
I think this system is wonderful, what should I do?
GTFO
Seriously though, you probably want to join this lot
http://www.brake.org.uk/
http://www.roadpeace.org.uk/
So I ended up with points on my licence, is there anything else I should know.
Your insurance company may require you to inform them immediately. Check your policy documents. Certainly when you get your renewal through you will need to tell them as the price they give you will be based on your previously clean licence. A single speeding ticket is unlikely to increase your insurance very much though as these days everyone has them so it is no longer considered a major risk factor.
Thanks: Jeff Lynne, BigglesPiP, [TW]Fox
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