Speeding

PMKeates said:
I decided some time ago to ignore all speed limits and decide myself how fast to go. It's worked really well so far, and I've had the cleanest period in my driving career. I'd recommend it to everyone!
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I have always done this and have never had points. (Not quite ignoring speed limits, but using them more as a guideline.)

I don't know why people think dead babies automatically come out of the exhaust when you exceed an arbitrary limit posted at the side of the road.

Are people so stupid they have to be told how fast to go, rather than driving at an appropriate speed for the conditions?
 
Dabbles said:
Are people so stupid they have to be told how fast to go, rather than driving at an appropriate speed for the conditions?
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This 'appropriate speed' is based on the observations and assumptions of the driver in question - which is all good and well when they are an all seeing eye and know everything that is going to happen before it does...however lots of/most accidents happen because something unexpected happens, at which time their 'appropriate speed' goes out the window.

I'd rather drive at or around a speed that people with more time on their hands than I have decided based on survivability rates and experiments to do with crashes/pedestrian impacts. This has got to be better than allowing every Tom, Dick and Harry to make their own judgement call on what is an 'appropriate speed'.
 
Stringy said:
I'd rather drive at or around a speed that people with more time on their hands than I have decided based on survivability rates and experiments to do with crashes/pedestrian impacts.
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What you describe is completely absolutely not how our speed limits have been defined.
 
PMKeates said:
What you describe is completely absolutely not how our speed limits have been defined.
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I figured the whole "x times more likely to survive being hit by a car at 30 than 40" would have had something to do with it. Similarly on roads with lower risks of hitting things/people the limit is higher. Granted in some cases it's baffling but as a general concept it runs true?
 
I've done 2 speed awareness courses in the space of 12 months. One in Manchester and one in Wales. The second one was an online course lol both a complete waste of time.
 
Why is it, that speeders are sometimes treated as scum or smokers when they get caught.. when just about every single person i know does it to some extent? I bloody hate bandwagon jumpers and this society is full of them. And no, i'm not a bitter speeder, i've never had a ticket and been driving longer than some here were probably alive by the looks of it.
 
Stringy said:
I figured the whole "x times more likely to survive being hit by a car at 30 than 40" would have had something to do with it. Similarly on roads with lower risks of hitting things/people the limit is higher. Granted in some cases it's baffling but as a general concept it runs true?
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I think you're sadly deluded :p

Aside from no-one (quite reasonably) having the time to go to every bend in UK and find statistics about what may or may not be an appropriate speed around it (if they even existed, which they don't), the idea that one speed is suitable for all vehicles from fully loaded HGVs to supercars is laughable. Even the commonplace cars e.g. 10yr old Astra vs 1yr old performance saloon will have very different safe cornering and stopping speeds. And that's before taking into account weather conditions.
Plus most NSL roads will have at least one place where it is unsafe to do the posted limit, even in the dry.

A better way to mark areas of road as possibly not suitable for NSL speeds is with Slow signs or recommended limits, as firstly these do not involve some guy in an office determining what speed it is safe for you to drive at, despite not knowing your experience level, car or weather conditions, and instead replaces it with a sensible warning.
 
Stringy said:
I figured the whole "x times more likely to survive being hit by a car at 30 than 40" would have had something to do with it. Similarly on roads with lower risks of hitting things/people the limit is higher. Granted in some cases it's baffling but as a general concept it runs true?
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Well, my instinct here tells me people very rarely get hit by cars going 30, let alone 40 MPH; I suspect a significant amount of speed is scrubbed off before people are hit.

Here's the information from the government:
http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/speed-limits said:
-at 20 mph a child hit by a vehicle has a 90 per cent chance of survival
-at 30 mph a child hit by a vehicle has a 50 per cent chance of survival
-at 40 mph a child hit by a vehicle has a 10 per cent chance of survival
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To actually hit a child at 40 MPH, say a speedo reading of 43 MPH, takes some serious doing...
miniyazz said:
the idea that one speed is suitable for all vehicles from fully loaded HGVs to supercars is laughable.
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I think this is the golden hypocrisy of the whole anti-speed campaign; a Volkwsagen Crafter CR50 loaded with sand and weighing 5000 Kg can nip along the M25 at 70 MPH, and a Lamborghini Gallardo can do... 70 MPH. That same CR50 dragging an additional 2000 Kg trailer can move along a single carriageway NSL at 50 MPH, yet the supercar is allowed... just 10 MPH more? Give me a break! The Gallardo will stop a week before a 7-ton Crafter train in any situation, let alone be infinitely more stable etc.
 
If Leicestershire offer the national course rather than a county specific then you will not be offered another.

When I was caught in Northamptonshire, they told us clearly that theirs was not the national model and that if we were caught again in a county adhering to either the national or their own model we could do it again. What we couldn't do was do the Northamptonshire one for 3 years.

Ignoring all the above about speeding, you will have to wait to see what they offer.
 
miniyazz said:
I think you're sadly deluded :p
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My argument is merely that I would rather there be a notional limit above which people are punished rather than have an 'every man decide what's right in their heart as they know best in that moment in time' approach.
 
As others have said it depends what courses are and the areas you were offered them in etc, wait and see.

Personally I agree with those who feel we should drive to a speed appropriate to the conditions of the road rather than to almost arbitarily numbers and mostly this is what I do. But the problem is that lots of people are incapable drivers or idiots and wouldnt be able to judge this. Hence the system fails. My issue is that nothing has changed in decades despite the obvious improvements in car technology. Just look at the braking distances in the highway code, maybe true in the 60s. Why cant this all just get updated.

Hawker
 
Stringy said:
I'd rather drive at or around a speed that people with more time on their hands than I have decided based on survivability rates and experiments to do with crashes/pedestrian impacts. This has got to be better than allowing every Tom, Dick and Harry to make their own judgement call on what is an 'appropriate speed'.
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Quite often appropriate speed is somewhat below the posted speed limit for various reasons, however your (some of) sheeple will simply drive at the limit because they are brainwashed to think that that speed is appropriate at all points along the route because "that's the speed limit".
 
Brookert said:
obviously, as you wouldn't have been caught the second time :rolleyes:
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It might well be that the propaganda spouted during such courses is a waste of time. I wouldn't know having never been on one, but I would suggest a 'pay attention to the road' course would be 100x more effective than simply repeating 'speed kills' a million times. I would rather we concentrated on stopping the causes of accidents than the speed at which they occur. The biggest cause of accidents is inattention.
 
Stringy said:
My argument is merely that I would rather there be a notional limit above which people are punished rather than have an 'every man decide what's right in their heart as they know best in that moment in time' approach.
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And so we are left with an arbitrary system that punishes speed rather than excessive, dangerous or inappropriate speed, under the pretence of road safety. Towns/villages there should be and are speed limits that are more or less appropriate for all vehicles because a pedestrian could walk out right in front of you and it would make next to no difference what car you are in (with regards to the speed you hit them at). But outside of built-up areas there is much less of an argument for generic posted limits.
Unfortunately there are not the resources to pick up on dangerous driving in the same way speed can be monitored and I don't have a solution to replacing the limits with a more appropriate damage limitation method, but that doesn't make the current system right.
 
PMKeates said:
Well, my instinct here tells me people very rarely get hit by cars going 30, let alone 40 MPH; I suspect a significant amount of speed is scrubbed off before people are hit.

Here's the information from the government:To actually hit a child at 40 MPH, say a speedo reading of 43 MPH, takes some serious doing...I think this is the golden hypocrisy of the whole anti-speed campaign; a Volkwsagen Crafter CR50 loaded with sand and weighing 5000 Kg can nip along the M25 at 70 MPH, and a Lamborghini Gallardo can do... 70 MPH. That same CR50 dragging an additional 2000 Kg trailer can move along a single carriageway NSL at 50 MPH, yet the supercar is allowed... just 10 MPH more? Give me a break! The Gallardo will stop a week before a 7-ton Crafter train in any situation, let alone be infinitely more stable etc.
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Yep, the stopping potential is much greater car to car than speed limit allows, but then there will always be the saxo crew that speed along at stupid speeds in town.

Doing a lot of country driving speed limits don't really apply. You drive to the road, it's technically 60, but you don't think about it, you know the road and drive to it. There are some amazing roads round here.

Also you only have to look at the queue behind a learner to see how many people speed!
 
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