Spinal Disc problems L3/L4

nitram100

nitram100

nitram100

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Hi guys,

Just wondering if anyone else has any disc issues?

I've been training for about 12 years now and also an NHS Nurse, which has given me back issues over the last 12 months or so. (not the training, but the Nursing) I think the training has helped support my back as I have developed very very thick back muscles over the years.

Had an MRI just recently and it showed disc desiccation at L3/L4, my symptoms are pretty much just constant pain at the base of the spine.

I'm very fit, lean etc just wondering if anyone else has ever had this diagnosis and managed to get better?

Currently waiting for first face to face physio appt with the NHS, but wondering in the mean time would an osteopath be worth it?

Thanks for any info guys.

Mart
 
It's not same as yours but I'll share it anyway, when I was 13 I had pretty bad lower back pain, sometimes I couldn't walk without severe pain.

They did some X rays and I got diagnosed with spina bifida oculta and slight scoliosis of the spine. I was recommended some hydrotherapy.

Throughout the years I have noticed when I have been inactive for long periods the pain would be more frequent and more severe. If I was active it subsided.

Since joining and gym and lifting weights my lower back pain has been very very infrequent I actually can't recall the last time I had bad pain.
 
B&W said:
It's not same as yours but I'll share it anyway, when I was 13 I had pretty bad lower back pain, sometimes I couldn't walk without severe pain.

They did some X rays and I got diagnosed with spina bifida oculta and slight scoliosis of the spine. I was recommended some hydrotherapy.

Throughout the years I have noticed when I have been inactive for long periods the pain would be more frequent and more severe. If I was active it subsided.

Since joining and gym and lifting weights my lower back pain has been very very infrequent I actually can't recall the last time I had bad pain.
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Thanks for the reply mate, glad your back is better!

I've been chatting to the physio and he is recommending that I restart deadlifts and squats into my regime, which I had completely stopped since my injury last year. Thanks mate
 
nitram100 said:
Thanks for the reply mate, glad your back is better!

I've been chatting to the physio and he is recommending that I restart deadlifts and squats into my regime, which I had completely stopped since my injury last year. Thanks mate
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I squat twice a week most weeks. Deadlift only once though. I think they both help tremendously with back issues if done with proper form. Just make sure you stretch and warm your muscles up before you start.

The only thing that did my back in was bent over rows with poor form. I fixed the form and do them weekly a lot heavier then before and no pain at all.

Do incorporate Romanian deadlift/good mornings in leg days they will strengthen that lower back to glutes and hamstrings.
 
B&W said:
I squat twice a week most weeks. Deadlift only once though. I think they both help tremendously with back issues if done with proper form. Just make sure you stretch and warm your muscles up before you start.

The only thing that did my back in was bent over rows with poor form. I fixed the form and do them weekly a lot heavier then before and no pain at all.

Do incorporate Romanian deadlift/good mornings in leg days they will strengthen that lower back to glutes and hamstrings.
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Thanks buddy, can't wait for the gyms to open up again so I can get this rehab back on track.

What kinda weight do you do for squats and deadlifts? Do you aim for heavy weights or high volume? I was deadlifting and squatting quite heavy before my injury and am reluctant to get even close to that (190kg dead and 160kg squat) I could never imagine pushing that weight again.
 
I joined gym 10 August last year and when November lockdown started I bought a rack and bench and weights. So pretty much been doing for 7 months squats and deadlifts.

Max squat at the moment only 115KG lol and deadlift 130KG.For squatting I aim for 6-8 reps max for 80-90KG. And above that just 4-5 reps. 5 sets twice a week, one day normal squats one day pause squats (best to fix form). Am being very careful with squats, so often my knee tracks wrong or something happens and I get knee pain for a while.

Deadlift I just plain suck at, everyone says tall long limbed people should be good at it I'm not. :(. I do max 5 reps.
 
The TL;DR of my back pain journey is, that there's nothing on my MRI that stands out as "whoaa, that's clearly the issue here", but given that I've had 6+ years of pain, there must be something there, as I'm certainly not imagining it. I've suspended disbelief and tried basically all mainstream things "experts" recommend. Currently going for more tests to find out if it would be useful to fuse my Lb/S1.

The longer version.
I have;
Lost weight (not that I carried too much but im pretty low fat % right now, as low as whenI was in high school), been to physio, been to physiologist, been to chiro, osteo, seen an MD, do Yoga, work out correctly, surf regularly.

I'm a man of science and data, so even though some of the "experiments" above go against my natural inclination of dismissing anything that's not proven, I gave it all a go.

I did a bit of a "back pain diary" since November last year, where I rated every day's pain out of 10, 10 being the worst and 1 being the lowest. The count's been about 8 days where I'd rate it as 3 or 4 / 10. At the moment, I'm going through the worst patch yet, where the constant jabbing of knives into what feels like a raw tender back is just not funny anymore.

I saw a specialist surgeon and he now wants to do a CT spectsomething scan, where they inject nuclear stuff into my vein, so that they can get a high contrast pic of my lumbar spine. He thinks the cause is discogenic (disk related), between the L5 and S1 vertebrae. There's deterioration of the disk and fluid loss, but he says that it's quite normal, and most people are a-symptomatic. As someone who has raced downhill bikes, I've knackered myself good and proper (broken bones, torn ligaments, dislocations etc), I can tell the difference between different types of pain. My back pain "feels" like it's "bone" pain.

Given my context above, I believe that Osteos and chiros are complete quacks, and at best, just a good physical / massage therapist.

Good luck with your journey mate, hope your results are better than mine.
 
Thanks for the message Supercow, so sorry to hear you've it the problems that long, I can't imagine suffering for 6 years. Lower back pain is absolute hell!

Did something happen 6 years ago , like an injury? Or just one day it suddenly started?

I saw that you're really active, do you have pain when active or is it more when you are resting like sitting etc My pain is on rest.

I've started a back pain diary as well and it's all over the place and I cannot pin point what aggravates it.

My timeline from the last year is just odd. I had an injury 12 months ago when I stepped out of a patients house and mis judged a step, you know when you expect there to be a step but there isn't? Then my left foot hit the ground hard and I felt a big jolt up my left side of the back, the next day I tried a light squat of 100kg and felt a twinge, at some point over the next few hours I completely collapsed to the floor with what felt like a pinched nerve or excruciating muscle spasm and spent the next 3 days in bed unable to move without exruciating pain.

The next 3 months were me recovering, got slowly back into the gym and taking it easy at work etc then started to get slight ache in the lower back and it hasn't gone away since to what it is now which is like a hot poker being driving into my lower back, it starts after about an hour from waking up.

Funny thing is, I spent time with my girlfriends family in Spain the month of August and the month of October, where I had barely any pain at all , we swam, we hiked 100kms in total with no pain at all? Then I came back to the cold damp UK in November and it's been hell ever since.

I'm wondering does the warm climate help me? Is it muscular? I find it odd that I ran 5 miles last night with not a single ache, but the moment I stop running the pain returns.

I'm gonna try the physios plan of reintroducuing squats and deadlifts again for a few weeks and see how I feel. I'm tempted by osteopath but I really don't think they help as I've been to one or two and they felt like used car salesmen, putting words in my mouth, didn't really have any answers for me. One just ran a massage gun over my back and glutes then cracked my back.

I see you're from Australia? Me and my girlfriend are emigrating there to the Sunshine Coast in October as we have just finally been granted our Permanent Resident Skilled visas, took us about 2 years to complete the process (we're both Nurses) so I am looking forward to some warmer weather and a more outdoor lifestyle, here in the UK the weather is so bad most of the time we spend most of our lives in doors or outside in the cold damp weather.

Sorry for the novel!
 
Hey @Nitram ... I’m not from here ... South Africa —> UK for 15 years —> and now I live on the Sunny Coast for the last 5. It’s the best place in earth to live, hands down. Come for a beer and we can moan about our backs together :)

As I type this, I’m just in a hospital bed at the Sunshine Coast university hospital at the mo for another unrelated surgery (elective surgery so nothing serious, just has a bit of a recovery period), so I’ll respond to the above in a few days.

In the meanwhile, drop me an email with your details to deonfouche @ gmail com, as I’ll be happy to meet up/ assist with any aussie move questions
 
@Supercow ahh no way mate? What are the chances haha. Glad to hear sunshine coast is a great place to live. Look forward to the moan about our backs haha.

Gosh, hope the surgery goes well buddy. Will email you now mate, for some aussie advice if that's cool!

Cheers mate, Mart
 
I took up swimming (without hard push-offs) which help for flexibility and giving the back an un/less-loaded work-out.

Imbalance between back and stomach muscles was an issue so, in particular did sit-ups, back massage by a professional does wonders too;
started using a kneeling/rocking desk chair, where you have to continuously use back/stomach muscles for support, so you have a workout al-desko

Also bought an inversion table, which was fun, but it was hard to knows if this helped.
 
@jpaul Thanks for the advice mate, I had looked at one of those chairs, they do look very interesting...do they take the load off the lower back at all as you are slightly leaned forward?

Yep I can't wait to start swimming, I was told to do this by my physio but bloody gyms closed again. Can't wait for them to open up again so I can really go at it.

What problem do you have with your back if you don't mind me asking?

Cheers mate
 
Deadlifting and strengthening lower back muscles is the single best thing for my chronic lower back pain.

As soon as I stop, it flairs up again. Lockdown hasn't helped, but I've been replicating with db deadlifts and doing hanging leg / knee raises.

I've had lower back pain since I was 18 (now 40), which I suspect came from a lot of bowling in cricket.

I've only ever seen a GP about it so far, who said it was musculoskeletal and to take ibuprofen and exercise/ do yoga.
 
Participant said:
Deadlifting and strengthening lower back muscles is the single best thing for my chronic lower back pain.

As soon as I stop, it flairs up again. Lockdown hasn't helped, but I've been replicating with db deadlifts and doing hanging leg / knee raises.

I've had lower back pain since I was 18 (now 40), which I suspect came from a lot of bowling in cricket.

I've only ever seen a GP about it so far, who said it was musculoskeletal and to take ibuprofen and exercise/ do yoga.
Click to expand...

That's great to hear mate. I restarted deadlifts yesterday thankfully have a barbell and some plates and a little den with bench and cable machine, I did 3 sets of 60kg for 12 reps each and already today my hamstrings are hurting more than they have in a year despite doing leg curls, bulgarian split squats etc for the last 8 months.

My back definitely feels a little better, I'm starting to think could super tight hamstrings be aggravating my lower back problem? Looking forward to next session already. Going to try squats tomorrow for the first time in a year, luckily I also have a power cage from my home gym I built 8 years ago.

edit - picking up a dragonn kneeling chair today , can't wait!
 
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Last year I went for a walk and then slept and woke up the next day with absolute agony and constant cramping all the way down my left leg.

Doctor said it would be a bulged disc and referred me to a physio.

While on the phone to the physio (Covid meant no in person appointments), after describing my symptoms (Pain & numbness down leg, in back and in groin/saddle area) he said to get to A&E immediately for an MRI, which A&E refused to give me.

Pain never got any better and I could only sit/stand for 30-45 mins without having to lay down, and went round and round and circles with the NHS trying to get an MRI before I saw a private physio who referred me for a private MRI.

MRI showed that I had a sever bulged and ruptured disc in L5/S1, and physio referred me to private consultant.

Consultant took one look and said that it's so far gone that the only option is surgery, which after managing to get an NHS appointment, which was then cancelled due to covid, I ended up having to surgery privately in January and am on the long road to recovery now.

I'm 29 and was "relatively" fit an able with an active job, but had been having lower back pain for years, which I imagine was related but I just passed it off as "having a bad back" from playing rugby from a young age and having a few nasty tackles which jarred my back.

Bit of a long post, but moral of the story is that good that you've had an MRI and to make sure that you take care of it because the surgery under epidural was no fun and recovery is probably going to take 9-12 months before i'm back to "normal!"

Best of luck mate, and look after that back everyone!
 
@Megahurtz400

Damn sorry to hear you've been through that mate. That's quite shocking that a& e didn't give you an MRI there and then!

Took me 8 months to get an MRI and I think that was only becuase I was a Nurse and the GP did a favor, quite ridiculous really.

You think this all started with an injury perhaps from rugby?

Do you mind me asking what kind of surgery you had, was it expensive?

Has your back pain started to ease up a bit since the surgery?

Hope your road to recovery is swift buddy!
 
nitram100 said:
@Megahurtz400

Damn sorry to hear you've been through that mate. That's quite shocking that a& e didn't give you an MRI there and then!

Took me 8 months to get an MRI and I think that was only becuase I was a Nurse and the GP did a favor, quite ridiculous really.

You think this all started with an injury perhaps from rugby?

Do you mind me asking what kind of surgery you had, was it expensive?

Has your back pain started to ease up a bit since the surgery?

Hope your road to recovery is swift buddy!
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Thanks mate, 2020 was especially awful as I was basically disabled and locked down like everyone else!

Yeah, I think they must try to avoid giving MRI's to young people with back problems as they must see so many people with "bad backs" which are just a strained muscle, but even after two physios saying I need an emercengy MRI to check it wasn't Cauda Equina syndrome (Scary stuff! :eek:) they still refused.

I do think that i've had some sort of disc issue for probably close to a decade, but last year it must have progressed past the point of no return.

I had a micro-discectomy, where they go in through a small incision in your lower back and they shave away at the part of the disc which is sticking out, only takes about 30-40 mins but is considered quite a big surgery due to how close it is to your spine/nerve routes.

When I went in I had the choice to get it done under general aesthetic or epidural. I opted for the latter on advice from the anaesthetist as the recovery in terms of straight after the surgery would be a lot quicker, and I was home the same day.

The epidural injection was absolutely awful and I wouldn't wish it on anyone! :p

It wasn't cheap, was around £9500 and I was lucky enough to have a grandparent free up some early inheritance to pay for it. I could have had it done on the NHS, but with after being messed around with for months, then Covid cancelling a surgery in December, I basically was almost bed bound and in an awful mental state so decided to go private just to get it done.

I'm still probably only 10-20% "normal" now, and it's been about 9 weeks since my surgery. I'm fully expecting it to take 9-12 months till i'm back to a full range of motion and I can lift anything heavy with confidence. My physio had the same surgery in her 20s and said that it took her 12 months till she felt back to normal.

Regarding pain post-op, the extreme sciatic pain I was experiencing down my leg and foot was gone after a week or so.

The first two weeks were awful as far as back pain goes, I was pretty much limited to laying on my side as I couldn't lay on my back due to the surgery site being so sore, and even getting in and out of bed or on and off the toilet was a real struggle.

This eased up after two weeks, and now 9 weeks post of I don't experience any pain of stiffness maybe 30% of the time. The rest of the time it's like a really sore lower back ache, rather than shooting agony.

As I said in my first post, i'll say again now to anyone reading, LOOK AFTER YOUR BACK! :D Make sure to work on your glutes and lower abs (not just the back itself) as there act as stabilisers for the whole lower back area, both strength and flexibility are important. If you've got a sore lower back get an MRI and see a physio and ask how you can work to make sure that your lower back is strong and supported by the surrounding muscle groups.
 
In early 2018 just as racing season began I was in good shape when a race got cancelled, a group of us went for a ride near the event. Anyway that ended up a bad day for me, due to a rider next to me crashing as we descended under a bridge ambulance called - scanned broken back. I keep an eye on threads like this as its good information.

I seen a physio some time later he recommended resistance/weights which I need to do. My day job is sitting at a computer so I have now got a standing desk but still experience back discomfort especially when I have not been exercising for a long period.

Seeing as we have NHS workers and knowledgeable folk, it cant be muscular pain for me, so I was wondering if its nerve damage or disc pressure related?

Agree with the latter part of @Megahurtz400 post. Its not until you have an injury that you realise how easy life was, your better of in good health than people striving to have loads of money. :)
 
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