squats

collisster · 24 Nov 2009 at 00:55

Hi just started going to the gym a bit more often at the sports club that I play tennis. I've got a routine going where tonight was back and shoulders, wednesday is legs and arms and friday is abs and a bit of cardio.

Having only just started its the first time I've done deadlifts and squats etc so I'm just asking for a bit of advice on some exercises,

I want bigger lats which is better, bent over rows, lat pull downs or pull ups? or a combination of all.
for biggers abs what are good exercies, I've been doing situps for years and abs are no bigger in size, I know you have to have low body fat % to see them but I'm not worried about that at the moment just getting them big first.

Should I go straight onto the protein shakes?

cheers

dun · 24 Nov 2009 at 01:27

Wide grip pullups for lats, you don't need to do anything for "bigger abs" just lower the bf%, no need for protein shakes.

collisster · 24 Nov 2009 at 02:08

I can hardly do more than 5 wide grip pull ups then I'm completely wasted! palms facing me with the bar coming infront of my face I take it?
Is there a good routine to get better at them?

cheers

RimBlock · 24 Nov 2009 at 02:58

collisster said:
I can hardly do more than 5 wide grip pull ups then I'm completely wasted! palms facing me with the bar coming infront of my face I take it?
Is there a good routine to get better at them?

cheers

Nope, they would be chin-ups.

All you wanted to know about pull-ups here.

Protein shakes are a passionate subject here as you may notice.

From my reading the concensous is that without is best.

but....

If you are finding it hard to meet the requirements (see below) through natural food due to cost, time contraints buying / cooking on top of a busy lifestyle or you wish to take advantage of the 'golden' period directly after exercising in order to give the body a protein hit to enhance growth / repair then protein shakes make a lot of sense from a suppliment point of view.

Shakes work in conjunction with a healthy diet geared up to the results you want and are not meant to be a meal replacement.

How much protein to take ? You can use the below as a guide.

According to the formula used by Sears, the pounds of lean body mass should be multiplied by the following, depending on activity level, to get the daily protein requirement in grams:

Sedentary - multiply lbs of lean body mass by .5

Light activity (e.g. walking) - multiply by .6

Moderate (30 minutes of vigorous activity 3 days per week) - .7

Active (1 hour per day 5 days per week) - .8

Very Active (10 hours of vigorous activity per week - .9

Athlete - multiply by 1.0

Some good sources of natural protein in food include turkey, chicken, fish, lean red meat, egg whites, tofu (bean curd). There are many others.

RB

Freefaller · 24 Nov 2009 at 06:34

I agree with that formula, seems sound to me.

WG chins are the daddy for lats, combined with WG pull downs.

You called this thread, squats... I take it you want to do squats too? Which is great they're a fantastic and integral exercise.

WantoN · 25 Nov 2009 at 10:12

dun said:
Wide grip pullups for lats, you don't need to do anything for "bigger abs" just lower the bf%, no need for protein shakes.

I disagree, a wide grip doesn't put more focus on the Lats. In actual fact, a narrower grip puts the lats at full extention, and wings the scapula more, meaning you travel through a fuller range of motion.
You also promote better activation of lats through stretch reflex

Chinups are the daddy for lats mind

Ant

dun · 25 Nov 2009 at 10:26

Wide grip with an angled bar /`````''``````\ like that but a bit less angle on the handles obviously hits my lats much more than narrowgrip. I agree you get a fuller range of motion close grip and chin grip but at full extension I was under the impression there isn't that much stress on your lats?

Freefaller · 25 Nov 2009 at 11:09

A mixture of hammer grip and WG will help, you do need both IMO.

'Wes · 27 Nov 2009 at 08:11

Lats:
-Deadlift.
-Barbell Pullover.
-Pull Up.
-Lat Pulldown.
-Bent-Over Row.

Abs:
You'll need to add weight in order to get the iron board look, and your love handles showing.

-Weighted Crunches.
-Weighted Reverse Crunches.
-Weighted Hanging Leg Raise.
-Weighted Oblique Crunches.

www.exrx.net is a good site for exercise demonstration.

Freefaller · 27 Nov 2009 at 09:49

I wouldn't bother with deadlifts for lats, though deads are an amazing exercise and should never be missed.

The problem with back exercises is a lot of people can develop thickness but not width. It's often because a lot of people have too much bicep involvement - it's all about technique, you've got to try and use mind visualisation (a great technique in bodybuilding - very hard to do though) to see your arms as mere hooks, and use your back to "pull" the weight to try an minimise bicep activation. Most people when training their back use their bicep to a pretty significant level which impairs their ability for width. It does mean dropping the weight and leaving the ego at home, but technique is what hits the right muscles and ergo builds them. If you feel a big bicep pump when doing back exercises, you're not getting it right. Sure, the biceps will be involved to a certain extent, but not to the degree that you get more of a bicep workout than a back one.

BORs and cable rows are 2 very very good exercises to learn how to use your arms as "hooks" as you can almost eliminated bicep activation on them. It does of course depend on grip used.

Bear that in mind if you want width - thickness is easy to develop.

BennyC · 27 Nov 2009 at 10:39

Would you say drawing your shoulder blades together with the weight before starting the movement with your arms might explain it slightly better?

Big Chris · 27 Nov 2009 at 10:43

According to the formula used by Sears, the pounds of lean body mass should be multiplied by the following, depending on activity level, to get the daily protein requirement in grams:

Active (1 hour per day 5 days per week) - .8

I weigh 91kg which is roughly 200lbs, and 1hr 5 days a week is pretty much my routine.

Is lean mass calculated in some way, or just your overall weight?

Using this formula, I need to be taking in 160g of protein, which I'm pretty sure I'm not. I'm going to work out my average daily intake later, are the guidelines on food packaging to be believed?

'Wes · 27 Nov 2009 at 11:13

You should never pass Deadlifts off, they are a key compound exercise that works numerous amount of core muscles at once, same with the squat and the bench press, they should always be implemented within your training regime.

Freefaller · 27 Nov 2009 at 11:19

Benny06 said:
Would you say drawing your shoulder blades together with the weight before starting the movement with your arms might explain it slightly better?

Yeah, you basically want to try and make your shoulder blades touch one another.

Freefaller · 27 Nov 2009 at 11:20

'Wes said:
You should never pass Deadlifts off, they are a key compound exercise that works numerous amount of core muscles at once, same with the squat and the bench press, they should always be implemented within your training regime.

Indeed - so many people seem to leave big compounds out these days - however as you can see we're all big fans of compounds here on OcUK! :cool:

TommyV · 27 Nov 2009 at 11:28

Freefaller said:
Indeed - so many people seem to leave big compounds out these days - however as you can see we're all big fans of compounds here on OcUK!

+1

Deadlifts/Squats/Bench (In that order of personal preference!) are awesome!

In relation to the topic name, my squat is AWFUL, i have to use a smith as i can't even do a squat with my own body weight without losing balance!

...roughly 160lbx8 were the sets i was doing. I'd imagine roughly speaking a 200lb 1RM or so.

Freefaller · 27 Nov 2009 at 11:35

If you're losing balance it's a flexibility issue. There's no reason at all for not being able to do bodyweight squats. Practice practice practice. Heck, remember being a child and crouching down with your bum nearly touching your ankles when building sandcastles, or poking bugs with a stick or something - everyone should be able to get from that position to a standing position with a straight back and without losing balance.

Unless you actually have an injury or a diagnosed/obvious physiological condition impeding your ability to squat without toppling over you have to question why this is the case.

However I agree, deads / squats / bench are my prefered order too. 600kg next year, I'm determined - I said I was going to hit it this year but didn't do much strength training this year - I only need to find 50kg...

BennyC · 27 Nov 2009 at 11:43

Freefaller said:
Yeah, you basically want to try and make your shoulder blades touch one another.

That explains why WG Pull Ups are the boss.

My back day today, going to pay special attention to pulling with my back as opposed to arms.

Freefaller said:
I only need to find 50kg...

Do-able. I think Most of it will go on your DL, then squat, then bench. Bench being the hardest to improve I find, or at least the slowest to progress.

Participant · 27 Nov 2009 at 12:06

My bench is VERY slow at progressing, whereas my DL for reps has gone from 60Kg to 100Kg (67% improvement) in three months.

I started off with 16Kg DBs for reps flat bench press and am now doing 22Kg (38% improvement). It's frustrating as my right arm can perform the reps easily but my left side is still far behind and never seems to catch up.

dun · 27 Nov 2009 at 12:12

Thats actual extemely quick progression robbie. It's only because you are seeing "newb gains" which are off the charts progression wise compared to the rest of your lifting career.
I love compounds but you have to be in the right mindset imo to get the best from them. I would hazard a guess that some of the guys singing compounds praises would be better doing a more isolated movement that they could get a much better 'muscle feel' from compared to just pulling or pushing without really thinking about it, especially bench.