Starter motor failure?

[Conscript]

After a bit of experience here if anyone can help. Car is a 2005 Nissan X-Trail 2.2DCI.

Girlfriend got in this morning to start up. Ignition on - all electrical systems working fine. Glow plug light goes out, turn key - nothing. Just a single *click*. Try again. Same - jut a click. I pop the bonnet and give the battery terminal clamps a wiggle (had this before, with poor connections before causing the same problem). Positive terminal a little loose, but it doesn't fix the problem. Girlfriend says she thinks the sidelights were left on when she got in, so seems like they might have been on all night. I'm sceptical, but fair enough - the battery is fairly old and has been a bit weak over the winter (lots of short runs too), so we take the other car and I grab a new battery while we are out.

Get home, swap the new battery in - same again. Single *click*. Bugger. Bit of swearing. Try a few times and nothing. I give the terminals another quick clean, then just before I give up, give it one more quick try - engine starts.

I take it for a run up and down the dual carriageway just to warm it up. I get home, park up and shut down. Try to restart - nothing. ****. Try another couple of times and it starts, a little slower than usual, but fires.

I decide to give the battery terminals and clamps a good clean. Take them off, cleaned with WD40/contact cleaner and a wire brush/wire wool. Gave the terminals a clean down (even though the battery is brand new). Re-attach nice and tight. Start the engine - fires first time, and very strongly. Allow myself a glimmer of hope - hopefully just corrosion?

Take it for another quick spin. Get home, park up and shut off. Leave it a few seconds, go to start up again. *Click* - nothing. Try a few more times. *Click*. Gently, I weep.

I then decide to ragequit and now I've come to the OCUK Motors hivemind for advice. Some questions:
I suspect the starter motor, but when I was trying to crank, I only got a single *click*. No multiple clicks, no whirring, no nothing. I gather these sounds are more common symptom of SM failure? To me, it sounds like the SM isn't even getting power.
When the engine did start, it started very strongly. If the SM was failing, would it lead to slower cranking?
We've had this problem before, caused by corrosion/poor connections on the battery terminal. I will take another look later, but I gave them a good clean down and the problem persists. Are there any other connections I should look at? I gather the SM solenoid can sometimes fail, but I don't know if this is something I can address without replacing the starter motor itself anyway.

What do we reckon chaps? Is there any way to reliably track down whether the start motor itself is at fault or if there's simply a loose connection somewhere? All fuses intact by the way. Any advice or experience welcome, I've tried the usual (swearing, crying, shouting and frowning).

 

[GeX]

Still could be a poor earth, worth testing by attaching a jump lead from the negative terminal to the engine block.

 

[Conscript]

Still could be a poor earth, worth testing by attaching a jump lead from the negative terminal to the engine block.

I don't have any jump leads and my other half had to take the other car to go out so I'm stranded at the moment. When she's back I will pop out somewhere and get some and try this. Optimistically, if that's the cause of the problem, I assume it would mean tracking the negative cable back to find the main earthing point?
Excuse my ignorance; nuts and bolts and oily bits I'm okay with, but I hate dealing with electronic and wiring issues :/

 

[ianh]

I had exactly the same on my BMW and a starter motor change cured it.

 

[Conscript]

I had exactly the same on my BMW and a starter motor change cured it.

If I have to change the SM I will do so...I don't *think* it's too hard to do myself. But although £130 for a replacement from ECP isn't too bad in the grand scheme of things, it's a bit annoying when we were probably hoping to buy a replacement in the next couple of months anyway. Hence hoping it's something much simpler I can fix

 

[kaiowas]

Sounds like a poor connection preventing the starter from pulling sufficient current. There will be a thick cable to a terminal on the starter that you should also check/clean up (disconnect the battery first though, this terminal is a permanent live direct to the battery). Also check/clean up any heavy gauge earth cables you can find to the engine/gearbox.

 

[iaind]

If I have to change the SM I will do so...I don't *think* it's too hard to do myself. But although £130 for a replacement from ECP isn't too bad in the grand scheme of things, it's a bit annoying when we were probably hoping to buy a replacement in the next couple of months anyway. Hence hoping it's something much simpler I can fix

Cheap salvage part on eBay? I needed a new starter on my old jag, was about £120 on ECP - a good salvage one was less than 20 quid delivered and worked fine

 

[rodenal]

What voltage are you getting over the battery terminals? Should be good given it's just been changed but a check should tell you if it's draining for some reason.

Will it bump start? If so given you've checked/changed the battery, no christmas tree lights on the dash pointing to alternator (check the voltage at the alt when running if you want to check charge) and the fact it just clicks when starting the starter motor seems suspect.

You could also check what voltage is being received by the starter when the key is turned if you still suspect an earth, but I'd expect you to get nothing, not even a click

 

[Akagi]

Check the earth cable, and for continuity on any power/signal cables. When this happened on my Polo, the cable had snapped!

 

[Armageus]

Couple of other things to suggest - could it be an immobiliser issue E.g. any light staying illuminated or message on dash ( think it is called NATS on Nissan's)?

Have you got an Obd2 reader, as this may identify any other issues before forking out for replacement parts.

 

[Conscript]

Sounds like a poor connection preventing the starter from pulling sufficient current. There will be a thick cable to a terminal on the starter that you should also check/clean up (disconnect the battery first though, this terminal is a permanent live direct to the battery). Also check/clean up any heavy gauge earth cables you can find to the engine/gearbox.

Check the earth cable, and for continuity on any power/signal cables. When this happened on my Polo, the cable had snapped!

Good shout. Assuming it's not pouring with rain tomorrow, I will get under and see if I can find the connections to the starter, or any ground connections and check them out.

Cheap salvage part on eBay? I needed a new starter on my old jag, was about £120 on ECP - a good salvage one was less than 20 quid delivered and worked fine

Yes, I've found a few on eBay. However, the good thing about ECP is that I have one only a few minutes away so I can get the parts quickly if needed - ideally I'd like to have this sorted this weekend, otherwise I doubt I'll get the chance during the week.

What voltage are you getting over the battery terminals? Should be good given it's just been changed but a check should tell you if it's draining for some reason.

Will it bump start? If so given you've checked/changed the battery, no christmas tree lights on the dash pointing to alternator (check the voltage at the alt when running if you want to check charge) and the fact it just clicks when starting the starter motor seems suspect.

You could also check what voltage is being received by the starter when the key is turned if you still suspect an earth, but I'd expect you to get nothing, not even a click

I don't have a multimeter at the moment (see earlier point about aversion to fixing electronics ). Might be able to nick one off dad tomorrow.

As for bump starting, I'm not sure what that would prove. The ignition circuits are all fine, when it did start it started perfectly. Even so, I wouldn't be able to do it easily anyway...the cars a bit big to push easily :s

Couple of other things to suggest - could it be an immobiliser issue E.g. any light staying illuminated or message on dash ( think it is called NATS on Nissan's)?

Have you got an Obd2 reader, as this may identify any other issues before forking out for replacement parts.

I don't think it's the immobiliser. I did make sure to unlock with the key fob before attempting any starting, but I'll be honest, I didn't pay much attention to the immobiliser light. I'll bear it in mind and try the second key tomorrow though, to make sure.

Thanks for all the suggestions all. I feel a bit better having a few more avenues of investigation to try in the morning. Shame the forecast is rain for the rest of the weekend :/

 

[Orionaut]

What make of starter is it?

If it is a Denso with the square solenoid casing and the terminals on the sides (You should see what I mean if you look at it)

The solenoid terminals tend to burn out causing this sort of issue. However replacements are readily available (About £20) and are really really easy to fit.

 

[Conscript]

She lives!

Took the battery tray out to get access to the starter motor. The terminal which links directly to the positive on the battery was heavily corroded, and the other connectors were also looking a bit shabby. Took them all off, sprayed with WD40 and wire brushed them, reconnected...hey presto, car fired first time

It's since started twice more with no problem, and now starts more strongly than ever. Might not have needed to replace the battery after all, but nevermind.