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Straight answers please....AA

thegoonden

thegoonden

thegoonden

Associate
Joined
21 May 2007
Posts
1,464
Background.....

I game at 1920x1200.
Not one of the games I play supports (sorry, is supported BY) Xfire/X2 (so no need to suggest X2 as an option).




Questions:

1. What is the highest AA value on the 280GTX (using Nhancer for the extra modes, like SS).
2. How does the IQ offered by that compare with the ATI 24CFAA?
3. Does 24xcfaa use supersampling?

And now the one I keep getting contradictary answers on.

4. Will a 4870 play my games with the same FPS as they now get with either 8,16, or (in gpl's case) 32 Supersampling AA.......but with higher AA.



If you're thinking of posting "BUT NOBODY CAN SEE A DIFFERENCE ABOVE 4X", spare me your drivel and instead visit an optician. 4x is fine in pointy shooty games, it's TRAGIC and HIDEOUS at the Nordschleife.
 
Greebo said:
I found this article explains everything regarding ATI AA and how it works.

And some pretty decent comparisons to Nvidia.

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTUzMiw1LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
Click to expand...

Read that already, but it's hard to see the screenies on my awful little laptop. I'll have to try it out on one of the desktops.
It doesn't seem to indicate what what supersampling works on ATI though. From setting up a 4850 for a mate, it seems there is some sort of master switch that sets multi or super sampling, but does that switch all AA modes to the relevent setting or what?


Maybe it does explain and I'm just brainnumb.
 
gurusan said:
What size is your monitor?
Click to expand...

28".
Quite a nice one, the OCUK el-cheapo. Buggers dropped £150 off the price 2 weeks after I bought it......maybe I should whine for a refind like certain early GTX adopters :D


I took some screenies for another person on another thread to show that you can see a difference in higher AA values, and in doing so found that in static screenies, you hardly can. It seems that my burning urge to do all my racing at 32SSAA stems from the way the aliassed bits behave specifically in driving games.
The Armco barrier which is all but de rigeur at modern circuits for instance, exhibits little steppy glitches which race back and forth as one sits on the starting grid revving, and in doing so making the car rock gently from side to side. Likewise, aerials, flagpoles etc have steps streaming up them as their relative postition changes. It's really distracting at times.
I also find that the stupidly high settings add an air of realism to things, in fact in some shots where the colours aren't so vivid (low light at dawn at le mans or the Nordschleife for example), one's eye can JUST be fooled into believing the image for a second or two.


I hasten to add, that I don't feel much need to have silly high settings in most FPS or strategy games, the irriration of aliassing seems confine to driving games (and MSTS, but it runs with 32SSAA reasonably well and 16SSAA perfectly). In non-driving games 4x or 8x is perfectly sufficient.
 
Well if your monitor is 28" and 1920x1200 then that might be why you require so much AA.

The pixel density is very low at that resolution and monitor size. around 80 DPI i think. For example a 24" monitor with that same resolution will be around 95 DPI and the image will appear much more sharp and crisp...and much less AA will be needed.
 
gurusan said:
Well if your monitor is 28" and 1920x1200 then that might be why you require so much AA.

The pixel density is very low at that resolution and monitor size. around 80 DPI i think. For example a 24" monitor with that same resolution will be around 95 DPI and the image will appear much more sharp and crisp...and much less AA will be needed.
Click to expand...


I think that's a factor certainly, but my previous monitor was a 22" with 1680x1050, which, I believe was a more "normal" DPI.....I was just as obsessed then :D
One nice thing about this screen is how nice "sub native" resolutions look, very little strangeness at all.
 
Yeah thats around 90dpi. However, why not just try a 4870 and if you are not pleased with it then return it under the DSR?
 
gurusan said:
Yeah thats around 90dpi. However, why not just try a 4870 and if you are not pleased with it then return it under the DSR?
Click to expand...

You're the 2nd or third person to suggest this. Couple of minor points with it which nag me.
1. It'd feel a teeny bit naughty, dunno why, it just would.
2. I'm cack handed and absent minded, I'd probably scrape the thing to hell and/or lose the box. :D
oh, and
3. if it comes to that, I'll never be able to post here again for fear of a barrage of "NV fanboy" and "ATI RULEZ you should have......" posts :D
 
To answer your questions (from memory):

1. Don't think the G200 has changed from G80, so basically 32xSSAA.
2. 32xSSAA will be better than ATi's 24xCFAA
3. 24xCFAA is 8xMSAA with more pixels sampled due to application of a edge detect filter (i think!?). Note that 32XSSAA is composite 2x2SSAA and 8xMSAA, not truly 32x SSAA ;)
4. 4870 is a lot faster card than the 8800 GTX (i had one before swapping), with AA enabled, however, it does not offer the same high AA comared to G80. For example ATis 8xAA (box filter) is a lot faster to the equivalent G80 8xQ AA. Both rv770 and G80 default modes (and G200) modes above 8x are not true box filter type MSAA, but are based on hybrids of coverage samples and color and z storage.
 
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Fx-Overlord said:
To answer your questions (from memory):

1. Don't think the G200 has changed from G80, so basically 32xSSAA.
2. 32xSSAA will be better than ATi's 24xCFAA
3. 24xCFAA is 8xMSAA with more pixels sampled due to application of a edge detect filter (i think!?). Note that 32XSSAA is composite 2x2SSAA and 8xMSAA, not truly 32x SSAA ;)
4. 4870 is a lot faster card than the 8800 GTX (i had one before swapping), with AA enabled, however, it does not offer the same high AA comared to G80. For example ATis 8xAA (box filter) is a lot faster to the equivalent G80 8xQ AA. Both rv770 and G80 default modes (and G200) modes above 8x are not true box filter type MSAA, but are based on hybrids of coverage samples and color and z storage.
Click to expand...


Ta muchly.
I did know 32 was 2x2+8.
From what you say, it may be a 280 I need. However, as was mentioned on another thread, the edge detect mode on the ATI might actually be better at eliminating the very artifacts I "suffer" even if overall IQ is a teensy bit lower.
 
At that high IQ settings I'd probably go for the 280 (or 280+ 55nm when it's out). The 512mb frame buffer would certainly begin to strain at that res and aa on a 4870.
 
SS-89 said:
At that high IQ settings I'd probably go for the 280 (or 280+ 55nm when it's out). The 512mb frame buffer would certainly begin to strain at that res and aa on a 4870.
Click to expand...
1GB model is the one I'm thinking of, hopefully that will negate that concern.


Starting to sound like the Buy-then-try option is the only realistic one.
 
ok well I've just reinstalled grid and finished the 2nd race, I will run some benchmarks with my 4850. it's clocked to 820/1150 but it should give you a good idea of how a 4870 will perform.

I'll include some IQ screenies too.
 
darnit i have to figure out a way to host these pics in full size.

Anyway here are some quick GRID benches...settings are 1680x1050 everything maxed out in-game, switched on and set to highest except Vsync...and CCC set to high quality.

The bench is recorded with fraps, it was a replay of a race about 4 min long

8xMSAA
Min---Max----Avg
44---112----82.533

12x Narrow Tent
Min---Max---Avg
32---75----58.529

24x Edge Detect
Min---Max---Avg
29---74----46.132
 
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AA Differences

To more easily see differences open them up each in their own tab and once they are finished loading switch between them.

NoAA
http://jra1jw.bay.livefilestore.com...eeenekD-xen6qfQTi9wFz7g2oOqyFQtxnD9E/noAA.png

8xAA
http://jra1jw.bay.livefilestore.com...skUmpUbDpT4HemHsW-NJ0297jWSZXKnoFc/8xMSAA.png

12x Narrow Tent
http://jra1jw.bay.livefilestore.com..._L6-wyng_WqcbVeu98mZ-ab__zI/12xNarrowTent.png

24x Edge Detect
http://jra1jw.bay.livefilestore.com...pRakJiirgg3XG0wFGqPP7A_663nZjIewN_k/24xED.png





also 8xAA seems fine to me. There is a tad bit of aliasing but the game still looks purdy to me! Also get around 85-90 constant

click for full
 
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