Strange Issue

[OliverQueen]

Experiencing a strange issue since upgrading my system last week. Upgraded motherboard, CPU & NVME storage & used the other parts from existing system;

• Asus TUF Gaming Z790-Plus WIFI D4
• Intel i9 139900K (doesn't matter if left at stock or auto-OC in XTU)
• Noctua NH-D15 (temps are perfectly fine @65C maximum under load unless running a benchmark) - from old system
• Samsung 980 Pro 1TB (boot/OS)
• Samsung 980 Pro 2TB & Samsung 980 1TB (storage)
• PNY Uprising RTX380ti (ReBar off in Bios as card does not support it & PNY won't update VBIOS to do so) - from old system
• EVGA GQ 1000W PSU - from old system
• 64GB (4x16GB CMW32GX4M2E3200C16 modules (2x32GB matched kits)) Corsair Vengeance Pro RGB DDR4 3200 (XMP1 profile 16-20-20-38 1.35v) - from old system
• Fresh Windows 11 Pro installation
• Samsung Odyssey Neo G9 49" UW & Samsung 28" 4K60 panel (for monitoring purposes) - from old system

Old system & the other systems I have here all boot fine 100% of the time on the panels with the 3080ti as well as restart from within Windows.

Issue experiencing is that it may take a couple of attempts to get the displays to display anything from a cold boot & if select restart in Windows, I will need to then press the reset button on the case a couple of times before they will come back on again. The diagnostic LED's show that everything is fine on booting up & getting the single beep from the PC speaker each time as well. The only time it doesn't do it is if I plug the panels (either one) into the onboard iGPU ports, where it will boot 100% of the time perfectly.

Have tried everything I can think of;

• updated BIOS & clearing it several times!
• setting everything as defaults as well as manual settings
• disabling the iGPU completely in the BIOS even though do use QuickSync for encoding/decoding but could live with NVENC if it would solve the issue
• set the GPU boot priority to PEG, auto, etc
• reseated CPU (using contact frame) a number of times, gone back to original socket clamp & tried that with same issue.
• only had the essential items plugged into USB such as keyboard & mouse
• tried with RAM at default JEDEC 2133MT/s as well as XMP I/II (which are exactly the same)
• Added the second 12vEPS cable (4pin only connected as that's all is there on board) today & same issue still as thought it might have needed more than the single 8pin EPS
• Updated firmware on G9 as was one released in October 2023 (no USB ports on 28" panel so cannot update that one)
• Changed DisplayPort cables to new certified DP1.4 ones as well as tried HDMI via certified HDMI2.0a cable (purchased just to try it out in hope it would solve issue)
• Tried multiple refresh rates on G9 & profile settings (after factory resetting each time)
• Tried single, double & all 4 DIMM configurations

As said everything from the old machine worked & still does if flat build the old system again & do not see this issue.

I am leaning towards the RAM even though it is passing the POST etc as not on the QVL list (although identical spec RAM from Corsair is apart from one Alphabet character difference in the product code is on the QVL - same memory chips, timings, voltage, etc), but don't want to purchase more RAM unless it would actually fix the issue as when the system does boot it runs perfectly fine with no issues (until restart!)

Any thoughts or obvious things I might have missed (memory isn't the best nowadays)

 

[OliverQueen]

You get this with xmp on or off, or both?

Both & with all DIMM configurations (1/2/4 modules & single swapping between each slot). I did try it earlier on with some 8GB Corsair DDR4 3000 modules with same problem (again not on QVL as older RAM from 2017/18).
Once it does boot (after a couple of presses of the reset button if panels go back into sleep mode again after the system beep), it works perfectly fine, hence why leading me towards a RAM issue on boot. Only thing I haven’t tried is changing the voltage on the RAM (upping it slightly) just to see if this makes a difference as know it can solve some RAM issues with this chipset with DDR5 (obviously this is a DDR4 board but getting towards end of options).
Only reason I went DDR4 was to use existing RAM as couldn’t really stretch to new RAM as well, else I would have gone down the DDR5 route instead, which is starting to look like it would have been the better option overall & not bought the Mrs anything for Xmas

 

[OliverQueen]

Seems odd it only happens with the dgpu, could try forcing the dgpu to use pcie 3, and have a look for a fast boot/ fast memory boot option and try disabling it. Some wild stabs in the dark here someone else might have some better suggestions.

I tried the iGPU again earlier on & it is doing it on that now as well. It was as if it was ignoring the PCIe priority (set to PEG) before & on checking in the BIOS it had not changed priority either. I have also cleared the CMOS several times.

Have turned off anything that mentions fast boot/fast memory boot that can see in the BIOS but still the same thing. Have tried setting the PCIe generation to all available options as was running it in Gen3 previously & same thing regardless of selection.

Looks like going to call ASUS on Monday morning, but as its my personal rig I can handle pressing the reset button a couple of times as it works perfectly fine & passes everything I can throw at it when in Windows including RAM tests (have also run overnight test using bootable version of Memtest)

 

[OliverQueen]

I looked on your list but didn't notice if you tried just one monitor? How does that behave? Is windows 11 new with your new components? Did you have windows 11 on your old system?

Yes on both iGPU & 3080ti (different DP ports as well as HDMI). No change - Just tried it over HDMI on a TV & same issue there so monitor issue looking to be out of the picture now.

Yes fresh new Windows 11 Pro installation with fresh USB media made direct from MS, Old system running a 6yr old OS install with no issues of W11 Home that started out as W7, upgraded to W10 then upgraded to W11 Home. I even swapped the old 970 Pro SSD with the old install in to see if that made a difference but the same.
i doubt it is a Windows issue as the issue starts at BIOS level before POST completes as does it from a cold start as well needing a couple of presses of reset button to get the panels to "wake up". The POST beeps & DrLED's (or whatever the 4 LED's are on the board) show that the system should be booting fine as single beep after POST & the activity LED for the SSD flashes as booting (haven't tried it with sound enabled in Windows for listening for the Windows Start Up sound tbh so will try that later today although I know it is definitely getting to the login page as keyboard lights change due to profile loading on Windows start).

I still think that is it is the RAM but without buying & trying an up-to date new QVL set, I cannot rule it out like basically done everything else. If I can't resolve this inconvenience then at least I know that if anyone steals it that they will think they have nicked a borked system

 

[OliverQueen]

Long shot but change the GPU speed in the bios to pcie3

Done that. Tried all the options from Auto through to Gen4 (no point picking Gen5 with this GPU).

Close to just saying enough is enough & putting up with it as I don't tend to restart that often unless an update requires it TBH & can handle pressing the reset button a couple of times if needed, until I decide to get a 128GB RAM kit (QVL). The only fear there would be when updating the UEFI/BIOS as need to press reset a couple of times after each of the 3 update cycles (UEFI/Aura/ME) that a BIOS update goes through. I can tell you that I was puckered up hard when updating from the original launch BIOS to the latest one & this happened as didn't realise there is no Flashback function on this board!!!!!!

 

[OliverQueen]

Sometimes you can turn a minor problem into a major one so holding off mite be wise especially before Christmas.

RAM purchase isn't going to happen anytime soon unless it can be determined 100% that it is the issue. More important things to purchase before that such as a new desk.

 

[OliverQueen]

My wife just broke my beautiful glass pc desk all because she wanted to pull it out to Hoover behind instead of getting the nozzle out and getting on her knees .

It took me ages to find and was perfect for the space, I'm so mad.

Considering one of the Secret Labs desks but cannot make my mind up if I would actually use the sit/stand functions on the Pro model. Not cheap when would be also buying monitor arm for my Neo G9 as well (not the Secret Labs one as don't think they make one suitable yet), but seems to tick every box I want from a desk.

 

[OliverQueen]

RMA her, if not get a new one.

Unfortunately when Girlfriends become Wives, most don't like getting on their knees & sucking up things any more

 

[OliverQueen]

wall of text makes it hard for me to see the problem hidden in there

Just to make it easier for you...

Issue experiencing is that it may take a couple of attempts to get the displays to display anything from a cold boot & if select restart in Windows, I will need to then press the reset button on the case a couple of times before they will come back on again. The diagnostic LED's show that everything is fine on booting up & getting the single beep from the PC speaker each time as well. The only time it doesn't do it is if I plug the panels (either one) into the onboard iGPU ports, where it will boot 100% of the time perfectly.

Everything has tested 100% fine & all the possible solutions offered, barring buying new RAM due to current kit not on QVL, have been ruled out as still working 100% on old components pre-upgrade. When got display & in Windows, everything is fine, 100% stable & components pass any test thrown at them, until restarting/shutting down & then pressing Power Button to restart, where will require 2-3 restarts for the monitors to display (all diagnostic LED's show POST fine along with single POST beep from PC speaker.

 

[OliverQueen]

What's the latest situation in Windows 11 regarding handling multiple display drivers? On my previous Windows 7 PC I had an NVIDIA GPU & driver for my primary monitor and the Intel iGPU and driver for a secondary monitor. It only worked because I had additional Intel SW to ensure that the iGPU driver did not interfere with the primary driver.

Windows 11 works fine with iGPU enabled but not connected for QuickSync as been doing that for past 6 years on the old 8700/9900K system (started out on W7, W10 & ended up on W11). Old system performed flawlessly with same monitors & GPU for over 18 months when I purchased 3080ti & Neo G9. The issue also starts well before Windows even comes in to play as well (does it from cold boot after PSU unplugged from cable etc)

It has been tried with iGPU disabled in BIOS as well with exact same results.

As said, basically everything has been tried now apart from buying a new kit of RAM (which would then make buying the DDR4 board a waste of time as didn't want to buy more RAM when existing stuff is perfectly fine). Corsair have changed the product codes for the kits that use the exact same chips & identical specs (same timings across board, speeds, voltage, etc) due to changing the LEDS on them now so even though old ones not on QVL, should be perfectly fine at both JEDEC & XMP.

 

[OliverQueen]

If you have had it past POST and into Windows then the RAM not being on QVL is very unlikely to be the issue. Remember that not being on the QVL does not necessarily indicate any compatibility problem - it might simply mean that it did not make the test list (i.e. simply a matter of Asus QA resources).

The part that interests me is that you state that there is 0% repro when there is a monitor attached to the iGPU. But with the iGPU disabled there is still a repro, which is at POST. That indicates a possible problem at dGPU BIOS load. Are you certain that the SBIOS BAR allocation is correctly set?

The original post had an error in it hence why strike it out on the quoted one where I thought it was working on the iGPU but it wasn't. It does it on both iGPU (with or without the 3080ti installed) & dGPU (which both monitors are connected to.

If you mean Resizable Bar, then that is disabled in BIOS & never enabled (no Above 4G etc) due to dGPU not supporting it (PNY refuse to release an updated VBIOS that supports ReBar for their 30xxti cards). If ReBar is enabled it will essentially put the 3080ti into a disabled mode & say there is no GPU installed full stop until it is physically removed and left out of system for 10-15 minutes or so (that's same on every board tried it on including the previous motherboard & neighbours 10th gen system which runs Rebar on his 3060 non-ti).

 

[OliverQueen]

Are you using your GPU in the top PCIe slot which looks like the 5.0x16. Have you tried your GPU from the bottom slot which should be the PCIe 4.0x16 if im not mistaken looking at the photos on the Asus site

As others have mentioned, given all the stuff you've tried put everything back to factory settings, single stick of RAM, single Display out, only use your boot drive and leave the others disconnected while testing to try and minimise the factors in play

All been done already. Literally everything I can think off (done ~20yrs in a repair centre until health declined rapidly in 2010) regards to hardware movement, testing, BIOS changes, etc (apart from trying QVL RAM) have been done with same results.

If it done the same on the old system as well, then I could understand it & narrow it down to what was causing the problem, but everything is fine so has to be an incompatibility issue between the board & something. I could RMA the board & end up being sent another to have the same issue still. As said, it is not system breaking as once it does decide to boot, then it is 100% solid. Hopefully I won’t have to update the UEFI very often as that is my only real concern tbh due to not having Flashback function on this board.

my laptop does this sometimes, I have to make sure to do a normal full shut down, never a restart, after a full normal shutdown, it will start up fine again with no issue, but if I choose to restart, it will just give the same problem again from there on in. I don't understand it, but there you go,

Does it on cold boot as well which I honestly can’t remember now when I realised it during the testing stage as may have thought it was going through memory training originally & failed which would have caused me to press the reset button a couple of times to get it to go back to UEFI “Safe Mode” when it was already at defaults (my short term memory after doing loads of different things isn’t great in my advancing age). If it was just restarting Windows that was the issue, then would put it down to a “feature” in W11.

The only other thing I have not tried is installing Windows onto a SATA cable connected SSD, which if I get time over the weekend, I may try that & see just to rule it out (even if it did resolve the issue, it wouldn’t be staying that way). Failing that, I could spend out on the lowest capacity/cheapest kit of RAM on the QVL just to test but if that worked, then would be wasted money towards the kit I would have bought & another kit of RAM sat in a box doing nothing (I have several kits of non-QVL DDR4 sat here which have tried from upgrades done to older systems)

I want to upgrade the RAM anyway as have always maxed out the RAM on systems over the years even if don’t actually need to (doesn’t usually hurt especially when I start getting out with the DSLR again/working with RAW images & undoubtedly be asked to help with editing some videos for friends), but undecided to go for a 2x32GB kit or 4x32GB kit for this machine. I know that if I go for the 2x32GB kit, i would have thoughts in back of my mind regretting not going for the 4x32GB kit & vice versa I still haven’t got round to giving ASUS a call yet as they may have had this before with this board & know an easy solution but I know that as soon as they discover the RAM isn’t QVL, they will blame that so will wait until then & see.

Oh well, many thanks all for the suggestions, I don’t think that there is anything really left to try.

** Apologies for the long sentences & poor grammar, but my brain does this automatically & can’t really do anything about it. The joys of Autism & over explaining things.

 

[OliverQueen]

You can edit your original post. Just click edit. You need to take this statement out "The only time it doesn't do it is if I plug the panels (either one) into the onboard iGPU ports, where it will boot 100% of the time perfectly."

You can only edit the posts for a certain amount of time afterwards. It won’t let me edit the last post I made earlier today now either.

With regard to the issue. Can you do the below and report back?

Take the dedicated graphics card out so you are consistently booting on just the on board GPU or iGPU. (I know you said it does it on both, I am just simplifying the setup).
Take out all SSDs/NVMEs/SATA HDDs. Minimize all peripherals like you said you did before. Have only a single monitor and keyboard plugged in otherwise.
Then unplug the kettle power lead from the wall. Leave it for 5 minutes.
Power it back on and do a cold boot and spam the delete key or whichever it is to go to BIOS.
Does it reliably go to BIOS every time and display a picture?

NO > Put a single stick of ram in and try again.
If it still intermittently shows the problem, create a bootable memtest usb and run memtest. Let it cycle through 3 times and see if you get errors. If it passes, redo the test with the other stick of ram in.

YES > If it is reliably going to BIOS and you get a picture every time, start introducing things back into the system in terms of hardware first, until all hardware is installed. Do the windows boot drive last. Then and only then, attempt to boot into Windows and see if the issue comes back.

That’s all been done already & no it doesn’t allow me to see anything until after pressing the reset button between 1-3 times even if spamming the delete key. That was one of the very first things tried. It already states in one of the previous posts (5th post on last line) on here that bootable MEMTEST run overnight passed every single one of the modules on the system.

 

[OliverQueen]

If you figure out that it is only doing it when it tries to boot into Windows. Have a look at these CSM options. Try setting it to enabled. As per discussion in this thread which supposedly fixed the same issue for someone with similar board.

It does it booting directly from a USB stick as well & will still go through the POST tests fine, single beep from speaker, all diagnostic lights normal, USB stick light flashing away as booting from it but nothing displayed with monitors still in ‘sleep’ mode. Even with no m.2’s installed & booting only from USB stick, the same happens. I did try the SATA cable connected drive earlier (hence removing the m.2 drives so bootloader wasn’t spread across them like Windows likes to do at times) with same issue & whilst digging the SATA drive out I found a USB stick with a bootable Live Linux distro on it & tried that as well to see if that helped - same thing.

Been given green light to order new RAM kit thats on the QVL by the wife in the new year, so will put up with it until then & hope that solves the issue. If it doesn’t, then only option left is to contact ASUS & try to get an advanced replacement (would be much faster than sending it back to seller & waiting for another to be sent out)

 

[OliverQueen]

He's just acting on the only thing he knows that in black and white the ram is not on the motherboard's QVL list, that's all,
edit:yet if it will boot into windows sometimes, then I doubt the problem lies in the QVL list, maybe a reinstall of windows is needed?

It is a totally fresh installation of W11 Pro & was doing it straight out of the box. The Windows Sounds are on & audio unmuted but like said, not hearing any start up sounds even after leaving it for 10 minutes or so to ensure that it would be at the login page & entering PIN on the keyboard does nothing.

It is not just that the RAM is not on the QVL that is the reasoning behind it but is undoubtedly going to be the first thing ASUS say when contacting them & will want a QVL set tested before they issue an RMA.

I have noticed today that there is has been two new BIOS released for the board (1601 & 1603) in quick succession within the past 2 weeks (not been at the PC due to health playing up since last visit here prior to today) as well as new Intel ME drivers. Tempted to update to 1603 along with updating the ME drivers (although the drivers won't do anything unless in Windows). Obviously with the issue, it is a little dicey updating the BIOS, especially as have to manually restart again after each of the 3 update stages due to the issue.

When I went back to the PC this evening thru Remote Desktop from my iPad, I did notice that it restarted itself 7 days 16 hours ago via a Windows Update whilst it was left running (I don't switch it off unless doing any hardware maintenance when not using it) as was presented with the "Setup" screen that a "major" update displays (this time probably down to Co-Pilot installing itself). I have been to the PC & the monitors came out of stand by when mouse was moved so that restart was OK. As not touched it for a month almost, I don't know how long it may have sat like that after the restart, so may over Xmas break, if able to sit at the PC long enough, restart it manually & leave it for a couple of hours (or less if the monitors turn on).

As been given go ahead for new RAM, I will be ordering some in the New Year. I noticed tonight that the Crucial RAM kit I was going to buy is no longer on the QVL so wondering if there is issues with certain Micron IC's (as doesn't seem to be any 16GB modules on the QVL that use the Micron chips of 16-20-20-38-58-2T that the current modules use anymore) with the Z790 chipset. All the 16GB Micron IC modules on the QVL now seem to have slowest timings of 16-18-18-38 but Hynix IC based modules are on it with existing tRCD/tRP timings). I know that my existing modules don't like 16-18-18-38 even with slightly higher voltages when manually configured, so cannot simply run them at that & try. If QVL listed RAM doesn't resolve the problem, then will RMA the board back to ASUS.

May also wait to update the BIOS until this time as well & after spoken to ASUS, so I can get it in writing via an email that they will be willing to still RMA the board if the BIOS Update fails (no flashback on the board), as don't them to try to weasel out of the RMA because of a failed BIOS update (like they tried to say with the beta BIOS palaver over the Summer when the AM5 chips where bulging & failing).

Anyway, thanks all that have taken time to reply to my thread. Marry Christmas/Happy Holidays to you all & hopefully will let you know in the New Year if new RAM has resolved the issue or that motherboard being RMA'd.

 

[OliverQueen]

Too much to read, but have you tried Nvidia's firmware update for 3080ti cards too, this works for all cards AIB's and FE..

It is a known issue the black screen issue on 3080ti cards and the fix is here :-

NVIDIA Support

nvidia.custhelp.com

Yes, I have run the DisplayID update utility & still the same no display issue is present.

I have also run the generic update for the 30xx series cards with regards to the ReBar issue I was having, which at the time made no difference, but after updating the motherboard BIOS to the latest v1604 one that was released around Christmas (took the risk in pressing the Reset button a couple of times after each stage during the update & it was successful with the update), I can now use the system with ReBar enabled (thought I would try it & it does show in GPU-Z as enabled now). So one issue has been resolved that was having even with old platform.

I can leave it for multiple hours but it does not reach Windows still so cannot RDP into it, so it is stopping with no display after the single POST bleep but not going any further & obviously because no display cannot see where it is getting stuck as the Error LED on the motherboard is showing as 'passed' all POST checks. Even with no SSD's or other storage installed, it will do the exact same thing so it is not an OS issue. Pressing Reset button with no storage attached & on getting display will give the standard "no bootable device found" message. Same issue arises regardless if a single or multiple display setup is used, connected via HDMI or DP & also have borrowed neighbours 3060ti to see if that resolves it with same problem (including with his display as well which also work's 100% fine in his rig) with no change in result.

Still to pull trigger on the replacement RAM, but health been in the toilet again so this is second time I have touched the PC since Christmas (after borrowing neighbours GPU/display to try).

Going to call ASUS today & see what they say (not holding breath other than they will either ask me to RMA the board or tell me to use QVL RAM)

 

[OliverQueen]

OK guys. I took the plunge & bought the 128GB DDR4 kit on Friday. Just got round to fitting it today & so far (fingers remaining crossed) the boot issue has disappeared! Looks like it was getting stuck on the RAM check from cold & pressing the reset button made it use the saved settings. Even if I left it & it was doing a RAM check every restart, it should not have not taken an hour or so & still not got anywhere. Don't know if older DDR4 modules (these were bought just before before the original Lockdown & obviously things have progressed slightly since then) had something missing from them that later memory controllers looked at or not (I don't delve down into that level of things nowadays).

Replaced the older non-QVL 4 x 16GB DDR4 Vengeance Pro RGB 3200MT/s CL16 modules with plain QVL 4 x 32GB Vengeance LPX 3600MT/s CL18 modules & things are how should be.

Obviously a bit peeved that I stuck with DDR4 so could use old modules & still ended up having to buy new RAM anyways, I could have just gone DDR5 in the first place, but live & learn.

Have done 20 or so restarts & shutdown/cold boot cycles so far with it powering up normally every time.

At least I haven't got to buy a RAM kit for the wife's build in progress as can put the old RAM back into that motherboard.

Thanks for all the suggestions & at least got to bottom of it eventually.