Subwoofer Setup Help

[maj]

I'm hoping those with far more knowledge on this subject can help me out. As per my recent thread, I've bought a Wharfdale SW-150 sub second hand. The sub itself works if either plug my phone into it and play something or if I use the manual setup in the receiver's options to send a test signal to each speaker.

My problem is that from what I can tell when I'm playing something via the receiver, the sub doesn't seem to be doing anything and it seems the speakers are still doing all the work. Can anyone advise on the correct settings I need please? My settings are:

Front speakers set to large
Sub enabled
Sub mode set to LFE+Main
LPF to LFE 120hz (default)
Crossover (all) set at 80hz

The manual says:

“Crossovers” can be set when the “Subwoofer Mode” setting is “LFE+Main”, or when you have a speaker that is set to “Small”.

The default crossover frequency is “80 Hz”, which will work best with the widest variety of speakers. We recommend setting to a higher frequency that the crossover frequency when small speakers are used. For example, set to “250 Hz” when the frequency range of the speakers is 250 Hz – 20 kHz.

Sound below the crossover frequency is cut off from the output of the speakers set in “Small”. This cut off bass frequency is output from the subwoofer or front speakers.

The speakers that can be set when “Individual” is selected differ depending on to the “Subwoofer Mode” setting.

When “LFE” is selected, speakers set to “Small” at “Speaker Config.” can be set. If the speakers are set to “Large”, “Full Band” is displayed and the setting cannot be made.

When “LFE+Main” is selected, speakers can be set regardless of the “Speaker Config.” setting.

From what I can find online my Q2020i's are 64Hz - 22kHz.

With regards to the sub itself, I have a single cable going from left input to subwoofer 1 terminal on the receiver. I have volume at 50% and crossover freq is currently set to 55 (starts at 35 with increments of 10 going from 35 to 85). I've tried difference frequencies and it doesn't seem to change anything. I've tried to remove the grill from it to see if I can see the cone moving but I just can't get it off.

If I go to Setup -> General -> Information -> Audio the format is 2.0.0. My receiver is the Denon X2200W.

Thanks.

 

[lucid]

On the subwoofer:

Volume 50% - that's okay
Crossover frequency needs to be set to the max setting. The AV receiver is controlling how the frequencies are split between the speakers and the sub, so the sub's own crossover needs to get out of the way to let the receiver do its job. That'll happen when the sub's own crossover control is set to max.
Phase - set to 0 degrees


On the receiver settings:

#1 - Try the auto set-up wizard now the sub settings are correct. Also, if there's a defeat switch for Auto Power Off, make sure it's set so that the sub is permanently on. The mic listens for the sub's reaction. If the sub is too slow waking up then the amp/mic will thing there's no sub and just ignore it.


What you should end up with the speakers on SMALL, the Sub as MAIN + LFE (this means that the sub is doing part of the heavy lifting with the satellites plus taking care of the Low Frequency Effects channel (LFE) which is exclusive to the sub channel.) The crossover frequency will vary by speaker group depending on what the amp has measured as an in room response. You can, of course, override this and set the THX default of 80Hz. LPF to LFE 120hz is fine.


When it comes to playing something, you need to understand the various audio formats, and how the amp will deal with them for you depending on the settings you select. Apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs here, but this is quicker than the long forum exchange where I try to work out what you do and don't already know.

The numbers such as 2.0.0 have specific meanings. Your amp has ATMOS, so you'll always have 3 numbers. This is consistent. It always follows the same pattern.

The first number tells you how many satellite channels are used in the sound file format. 2 means stereo or two-channel mono i.e. the front L&R speakers. 1 is mono (centre). 5 is full surround: centre, L&R, Surr L & Surr R. You can have any number from 1-5. The number only tells you the number of active channels of sound. It doesn't tell you what's in then. 5.0.0 could be full surround excluding sub, or it could be 5 mono channels.

The second number tells us if there's an LFE channel in the audio stream. 0 = no. .1 = Yes. Therefore, 5.1.0 would be 5 active satellite channels plus and LFE channel. This is typically what you get from Dolby Digital, DTS, and the HD audio formats.

The final number indicated if there's ATMOS audio channels in the sound stream. 0 = no. .2 = Yes.


Pulling all this together, a stereo music source or TV audio which could be the analogue inputs, or a digital input (coax or optical), or HDMI, or Net Radio / Streaming will come up as 2.0.0 This means you've got two channels of sound; usually full range audio from 20Hz (bass) to 20kHz (extreme treble). How you set the amp to process that will determine which speakers start to do some work.

If the amp is in Direct or Straight mode, then it simply passes the sound to the corresponding speakers. A 2.0.0 signal will make the front L&R do some work, but the rest of the speakers will be silent.

Switch the amp to something like Stereo mode (which is really Stereo + Sub) then the front L&R plus the sub start to work.

To make 2.0.0 come through all the speakers, you need a setting such as Multichannel Stereo, or Dolby Surround (ProLogic II Movie/Music/Game), or DTS Neural or DTS Virtual.


When the audio is already encoded in some kind of discrete surround format such as Dolby Digital or DTS Master Audio, then the amp should auto detect that and switch to the correct processing mode.


Give that a whirl and let us know how you get on.

 

[hornetstinger]

Set your speakers to small, crossover on avr to 80hz. Set maximum crossover on the sub itself.

I wouldn't recommend using main + life setting.

Your speakers are not full range so do not set them to large.

Main + lfe will duplicate bass

 

[maj]

Thank you both particular lucid for your detailed explanations of things. Apologies for not replying sooner but been quite busy with work. I don't mind you teaching me how to suck eggs at all, I'm starting out in home cinema and there's a lot for me to learn.

I still have the microphone to do the setup with Audyssey but it is in loft and so have been doing everything manually.

Since you both agreed setting them to small is the best setting, I've changed it. Upon reading the manual I noticed I hadn't previously set the receiver to 6 ohms to match the speakers. Since this change the speakers seem to have more life in them and depending on what I'm playing, -30db can be more than enough.

The auto power setting on rear of sub has been changed to off. Is that right? My logic being that unless I switch it off manually then it will always be sat waiting for a signal and I won't get the 'pop' noise when it switches on or off which seems quite common on the sw-150.

I've set the crossover for the speakers to 80 and the crossover on the sub to maximum like you both suggested. I've left volume at 50% and phase at 0.

LFE or LFE + main was where I was a bit confused as one of you said to leave it on both, the other saying just LFE. I'm currently trying it with just LFE having done my own research on it since and it being the recommended setting when speakers are set to small.

I think I can hear a difference now when I play something to it. I wouldn't say it was very noticable that I've now got a sub and the speakers are still doing most of the work which I'm guessing is supposed to happen. Depending on the type of music I play there's probably not a lot for the sub to do if the song doesn't have much bass to begin with or if I'm streaming Netflix and the scene is just people talking then again the would be nothing for the sub to do.

 

[lucid]

LFE or LFE + main was where I was a bit confused as one of you said to leave it on both, the other saying just LFE. I'm currently trying it with just LFE having done my own research on it since and it being the recommended setting when speakers are set to small.

I think I can hear a difference now when I play something to it. I wouldn't say it was very noticable that I've now got a sub and the speakers are still doing most of the work which I'm guessing is supposed to happen. Depending on the type of music I play there's probably not a lot for the sub to do if the song doesn't have much bass to begin with or if I'm streaming Netflix and the scene is just people talking then again the would be nothing for the sub to do.

@hornetstinger is technically correct about the LFE + Main thing. In practise though, you only get the double dose of bass if the main speakers are set to Large. When they're set to Small then it really doesn't make any practical difference if its LFE or LFE + Main; the result is the same with Small speakers.

If you want to be sure that the sub is contributing, then, as more of a test rather than a permanent setting, just increase the sub level. It's probably easier to do this in the amp's Level settings menu since you have a display that shows the dB setting, and that means you can go back to whatever the original value was.

Folk often think that a sub has to be flapping and booming all the time, but really it doesn't. The best setting is when the sub is making a contribution but not drawing attention to itself. It seems like you're fairly cplose to that point right now. Remember though, you do have to pay attention to the source file, and understand what the amp is doing to that signal.

Where the amp is getting a stereo signal then with your current settings, and having the amp in a 'Stereo + Sub' or surround mode rather than in Direct or Pure modes, then the sub will only start to play along when there's bass content in the signal for it to play. With music, that really shouldn't be too difficult to find unless you like listening to unaccompanied solo female vocals or similar. If it's TV, and particularly the hell that is daytime TV, then there'll be less for the sub to do. Try playing a recent blockbuster action film either from disc or a decent streaming source. You want something where the amp automatically engages DD/DTS or some HD audio processing mode.

 

[hornetstinger]

Correct you don't want the sub to draw attention to itself.

If your windows are blown out when someone places a pillow very softly on a soft bed, you have subwoofer volume too high.

 

[hornetstinger]

As for main plus lfe depends on your unit for mine....

• Select FULL to send a full-range signal to the front speakers.
Otherwise, select the crossover point closest to the low￾frequency rating of the front speakers.
• Select FULL + SUB to send a full-range signal to the front
speakers and duplicate bass frequencies to the SUB output.
(The set crossover point of the SUB parameter determines the
upper range of duplicate bass.) Selecting the FULL + SUB
option can result in excessive bass.

Subwoofer also has option to set processor sub out to be full range. A setting won't use unless want to use subs own crossover but useful it's there.