Summer Transfer Thread 2019

Yeah but that's not saying a lot, I'm better than Otamendi :p

I should be starting for City alongside Laporte.... sign me up Pep!
 
McBain said:
Would have to disagree with the point about not being a guaranteed starter for any of the top 6, I think he starts for any and all of them. I can pick out at least one 'starting' defender for every team in the top 6 that I'd personally have Maguire over.

United - all
Arsenal - all
Liverpool - Matip, Lovren, Gomez
Chelsea - Luiz
Spurs - Vertongen, Sanchez
City - Otamendi, Stones, Mangala

I'd have Maguire over all of those.
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Ok just for clarity, being marginally better than x isn't what I mean by guaranteed starter. I wouldn't take Maguire over Gomez for one moment, least not in a Liverpool side that plays the way we play but even Gomez isn't somebody I would class as a certain starter. VVD is all but nailed on to play every game he's fit and available for and Gomez, Matip and Lovren are competiting to play alongside him and who gets the nod will depend on form. We've seen over the past couple of seasons that all 3 have had extended runs in the side alongside Van Dijk and at varying points also been 4th choice. If Maguire was at Liverpool he wouldn't fall into the VVD category as a certain starter, he'd be competing with the others to play alongside him and you're not spending upwards of £70m on CB's that would be squad players.

Again I'd question whether Maguire was better and as suited to play for Spurs & City than Vertongen and Stones were but at best you could say he was a marginal improvement (Maguire might be a better defender but he's not as good a footballer as either and therefore not as suited to a Spurs or City) - that's not enough to be a certain starter. Chelsea's the only possible exception with Luiz - depending who the manager is and how they want to play. Any manager that's going to look to want to play out of the back is going to favour somebody like Luiz and he'd likely start most games, as we saw with Sarri, where as a Mourinho would be the opposite.
 
BaZ87 said:
Ok just for clarity, being marginally better than x isn't what I mean by guaranteed starter. I wouldn't take Maguire over Gomez for one moment, least not in a Liverpool side that plays the way we play but even Gomez isn't somebody I would class as a certain starter. VVD is all but nailed on to play every game he's fit and available for and Gomez, Matip and Lovren are competiting to play alongside him and who gets the nod will depend on form. We've seen over the past couple of seasons that all 3 have had extended runs in the side alongside Van Dijk and at varying points also been 4th choice. If Maguire was at Liverpool he wouldn't fall into the VVD category as a certain starter, he'd be competing with the others to play alongside him and you're not spending upwards of £70m on CB's that would be squad players.

Again I'd question whether Maguire was better and as suited to play for Spurs & City than Vertongen and Stones were but at best you could say he was a marginal improvement (Maguire might be a better defender but he's not as good a footballer as either and therefore not as suited to a Spurs or City) - that's not enough to be a certain starter. Chelsea's the only possible exception with Luiz - depending who the manager is and how they want to play. Any manager that's going to look to want to play out of the back is going to favour somebody like Luiz and he'd likely start most games, as we saw with Sarri, where as a Mourinho would be the opposite.
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That's where we differ, I don't think he's marginally better than the players I've mentioned, he's considerably better than anyone on that list because his primary job is to defend and he's better in that department, imo.

His footballing ability isn't getting enough credit in here, people are talking like he's just a big lump. He's actually very solid on the ball, especially when bringing it out from the back. He's equally as good as Stones is on the ball, without the constant **** ups to boot.

If we want to talk about styles sure, take a look at England where it's pretty obvious Southgate wants us playing out from the back. Who is an ever present? Maguire, whereas he has, at least the last few games, chopped and changed between Stones and Gomez. Maguire is a guaranteed starter for England... over players I've listed above.
 
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McBain said:
That's where we differ, I don't think he's marginally better than the players I've mentioned, he's considerably better than anyone on that list because his primary job is to defend and he's better in that department, imo.

His footballing ability isn't getting enough credit in here, people are talking like he's just a bit lump. He's actually very solid on the ball, especially when bringing it out from the back. He's equally as good as Stones is on the ball, without the constant **** ups to boot.
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Ok well I don't think he's as good an all round CB (for their respective sides) let alone marginally better than either of Gomez or Vertongen and while he's a better defender than Stones, I couldn't disagree more about him being as good on the ball and while Pep's City's manager that will big a bigger factor in his thinking than his ability to head things away. Maguire isn't just a lump and isn't bad on the ball but Gomez, Vertongen and particularly Stones are much better.

Re the bolded part of your post. It's not 1995 anymore. For Liverpool and City in particular, the attributes you need as a defender aren't the same as what you need playing for Leicester. Liverpool and City don't defend on the edge of their 18 yard box, they defend on their halfway line and keeping the ball isn't just something needed to score goals but not to concede them too. I don't think Otamendi or Stones are great defenders and if you put them in a side at the bottom end of the table they'd be a liability but they're suited to playing for City. City don't concede not because their CB's are the best defenders but because they have 70% of the ball and having CB's that are comfortable accepting the ball 6 yards from goal and willing to play 1 and 2 touch in their 18 yard box is why they have 70% possession. Maguire is not nearly as suited to that as either. The other thing CB's for Liverpool and City need is the ability to defend counter attacks and 1 v 1 situations - Otamendi is a hatchet man and he's happy to take people out when needed and in the case of somebody like Gomez, he's as quick as any striker around. Again, I'm not sure Maguire has the snide side of his game to do what Otamendi does and he certainly hasn't got the pace of Gomez. The areas Maguire is stronger in aren't as relevant to a Liverpool or City.
 
BaZ87 said:
Ok well I don't think he's as good an all round CB (for their respective sides) let alone marginally better than either of Gomez or Vertongen and while he's a better defender than Stones, I couldn't disagree more about him being as good on the ball and while Pep's City's manager that will big a bigger factor in his thinking than his ability to head things away. Maguire isn't just a lump and isn't bad on the ball but Gomez, Vertongen and particularly Stones are much better.

Re the bolded part of your post. It's not 1995 anymore. For Liverpool and City in particular, the attributes you need as a defender aren't the same as what you need playing for Leicester. Liverpool and City don't defend on the edge of their 18 yard box, they defend on their halfway line and keeping the ball isn't just something needed to score goals but not to concede them too. I don't think Otamendi or Stones are great defenders and if you put them in a side at the bottom end of the table they'd be a liability but they're suited to playing for City. City don't concede not because their CB's are the best defenders but because they have 70% of the ball and having CB's that are comfortable accepting the ball 6 yards from goal and willing to play 1 and 2 touch in their 18 yard box is why they have 70% possession. Maguire is not nearly as suited to that as either. The other thing CB's for Liverpool and City need is the ability to defend counter attacks and 1 v 1 situations - Otamendi is a hatchet man and he's happy to take people out when needed and in the case of somebody like Gomez, he's as quick as any striker around. Again, I'm not sure Maguire has the snide side of his game to do what Otamendi does and he certainly hasn't got the pace of Gomez. The areas Maguire is stronger in aren't as relevant to a Liverpool or City.
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The proof is in the pudding, as per my last edited comment. When the three of Stones, Gomez and Maguire are fit Maguire is a guaranteed starter for England and I'd argue Southgate is a better judge of player ability than anyone on this forum (except me).

Southgate wants his team to be good on the ball at the back, if Maguire was significantly worse than Gomez and Stones then he wouldn't get a look in.

A quote from the big man himself, the greatest right back in PL history, super G Nev:

"We talk about John Stones being good on the ball, I actually think Maguire is the equal of him on the ball. A big statement, maybe, as Stones is seen as the composed, ball-playing centre-back, but I think Maguire is just as good on the ball."

Whether you take any notice of Neville is another matter :p
 
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Can't recall them all being fully fit and available for England at the same time but I'd be stunned if Gomez isn't a regular for England within the next 12 months. Southgate brought Gomez into the side prior to him even breaking into the Liverpool side at CB, before Maguire and he would have played the WC had he not picked up an injury at the end of the 17/18 season.

And re Neville, he also said Robertson wasn't up to it too so who knows how good a judge of player he is.
 
And worth about £40m but it is United so that means £60m, But City might want a sniff so that is £80m and considering it is Woodward doing the negoiations add another £10m on top.


Cmon pull the finger out lads pay the money but just make sure most of it is over time and addons. It will be worth it to have Shaw Maguire Bissaka as part of the back four add Lindelof and were looking good!
 
BaZ87 said:
Can't recall them all being fully fit and available for England at the same time but I'd be stunned if Gomez isn't a regular for England within the next 12 months.
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Happened multiple times in the last year, I would have to agree that Gomez should be first choice alongside Maguire for the future though. Stones is far too prone to a massive mistake.

We do have some other solid options but Maguire and Gomez are leading the way imo.
 
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McBain said:
=
His footballing ability isn't getting enough credit in here, people are talking like he's just a big lump. He's actually very solid on the ball, especially when bringing it out from the back. He's equally as good as Stones is on the ball, without the constant **** ups to boot.
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Maguire was our biggest liability during the world cup, in respect of ball retention. The number of times he passed out from the back and gave the ball away was remarkable. I don't really get how there's this myth that he's good at it.

Look at the stats for the WC (https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/345/Show/England-England). Maguire has a lower pass completion than Stones, was dispossessed more frequently, and had more instances of poor control leading to a loss of possession.
 
I just don't get the huge price tag on Maguire. He's a good defender for a team like Leicester, but I certainly wouldn't want him playing for Liverpool. He just doesn't have the pace, distribution or composure on the ball to play our style.

The talk of 80m for him is just hilarious. That's 5m more than van dijk :p

United are welcome to him.
 
IvanDobskey said:
I just don't get the huge price tag on Maguire. He's a good defender for a team like Leicester, but I certainly wouldn't want him playing for Liverpool. He just doesn't have the pace, distribution or composure on the ball to play our style.

The talk of 80m for him is just hilarious. That's 5m more than van dijk :p

United are welcome to him.
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The price tag is because Leicester don't want to sell but if a club like United want to pay a frankly ridiculous amount then they'll sell. That's all.
 
Exactly, it's surprising people still don't grasp how the transfer market works.

What I do find a bit strange is why we're trying to sign players mostly from Premier League teams - they are going to hold out for much higher prices than clubs abroad will.
 
manic111 said:
Maguire was our biggest liability during the world cup, in respect of ball retention. The number of times he passed out from the back and gave the ball away was remarkable. I don't really get how there's this myth that he's good at it.

Look at the stats for the WC (https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/345/Show/England-England). Maguire has a lower pass completion than Stones, was dispossessed more frequently, and had more instances of poor control leading to a loss of possession.
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Whereas look at his stats for this season, won more aerial duels (as a %) than anyone else in the entire league and 2nd highest successful dribble percentage from any central defender. Being good on the ball isn't just about pass completion, it's retaining the ball, control, moving out with it etc of which he has shown he's more than capable this season.

Did he have the best World Cup? No he didn't, but Sterling had a shocker a couple of competitions ago and look at him now. Messi has had bad International competitions, it doesn't make him a bad player.
 
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