Caporegime
They spent 450m on players and the only fundamental change was the keeper? That is impressive. The rest of your post...I have no idea what you're even responding to because you just made one hell of a strawman.
Summer Transfer Window 22/23
- Thread starter robfosters
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They spent 450m on players and the only fundamental change was the keeper? That is impressive. The rest of your post...I have no idea what you're even responding to because you just made one hell of a strawman.
And the plan was for Rangnick to help put in place a better structure, however, for various reasons that didn't materialise. The club wouldn't have been able to put an entire new structure in place in the space of a couple of months, so logically it makes sense to try and get players that the new manager wants. This is to provide a platform on which he can hopefully start to seriously improve things on the pitch. Woodward was by all accounts the issue, he wasn't interested in a structure and that has caused serious damage. Arnold and Murtough may well be looking longer term, but we don't know at the moment. Ten Hag is a very different appointment to previous managers, which will hopefully be a good thing.
It's easy to just slate the club because they've managed to mess everything up so far, which they have - but I don't personally see any major concerns with Ten Hag's targets or the logic behind them. The key thing now is to actually get the deals done.
City spend massive money for the past 10+ years, I'm not sure what your point is? They spent many hundreds of £m's since then and haven't made a fundamental difference to how they play. I appreciate you're just trying to twist words now rather than debate the actual point but I will explain one more time - there was no fundamental changes (barring the keeper) to the City side that won the title under Pep than was there before he arrived. The spine of that side was there before him. Yes, they spent a lot of money (as they always have and will) but they didn't make wholesale changes to how they played or their line-up. They've continued to spend money, making incremental improvements and or replacing players in the years since but there hasn't been a 180 in there.
As you always do, you're defending every criticism anybody throws at Utd to the point that I'm genuinely starting to question why Utd have been so bad for so long - after all everything is hunky-dory. You're objecting to the point that Utd will have to make wholesale changes before they're able to challenge again and you would because you've previously defended all of De Gea, AWB, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw, McTominay, Fred, Pogba, Martial, Fernandes, Ronaldo and pretty much every Utd player when I or somebody else has said they're not good enough and or suitable.
As I said, if you think Utd are only 2-4 changes away from challenging then good luck. Before Utd win another major trophy, the Utd side will look completely different to what it was last season. I suspect it will look completely different to how it looks next season too as you're probably a good few years and possibly managers away and no doubt your next manager will play completely differently and will be wanting to sell your potential new 4 foot CB.
Caporegime
Christ Baz pleas look up what a strawman argument is. You spend so much time putting words in other people's mouths I'm surprised you get any out of your own.
What words have I put into your mouth? You're trying to compare Utd maybe making 2-4 signings this season with the amount of signings City made under Pep. If you don't think that Utd are only 2-4 signings away from challenging then what is your point? The point I made, which you're arguing against is that Utd will now need to make massive changes before they can compete again and when ETH is inevitably sacked in 24-30 months, will be in the same position then.
Caporegime
You've claimed multiple times that I've said we're 2-4 signings from challenging where I said no such thing. You've claimed I'm saying everything is fine at the club where I've said no such thing. It's pointless having a discussion with you when you resort to things like this. You can see why so many people have left this forum.
You say it's pointless having a discussion but you won't answer the question. Unless you believe that Utd are only 2-4 changes away from getting to where they need to be, what is the point of the comment?
Utd don't need to make any changes at all if they want. They'll still be crap but they wouldn't have made any changes if that helps your arguement? My point, which you've argued against, is that before Utd will be in a position to challenge again under this manager they will have needed to make massive changes both in personnel and playing style because they continuously leap from manager to manager without any plan and have now got a squad completely unsuited (and not very good) for the manager they've appointed.
The answer to my question is you were trying to make a smart ass comment but it was completely irrelevant to the argument because Utd making 2-4 changes isn't enough and you know it.
Caporegime
lmao, it's like you didn't even read what I said. You can have a 'victory' if that is what you want Baz. Soon nobody will want to discuss things with you and you can have all the victories you want.
Thanks. Your inability to answer the question speaks volumes. As I said, we've been down this road before, say something negative about Utd and Shami will tell you you're wrong. I just don't know why Utd are so bad, it makes no sense.
Not sure I get the Klopp or Pep comparisons. Werent both teams underachieving before they became managers of the teams? ETH is walking into a **** show of big egos, big salaries, and a poorly run organisation.
As great as Klopp and Pep are, they have some of the number 1 players (in the world) in certain positions don't they? How do United's players fare? Even the proposed singings? Do they make it into top 3, top 5?
As great as Klopp and Pep are, they have some of the number 1 players (in the world) in certain positions don't they? How do United's players fare? Even the proposed singings? Do they make it into top 3, top 5?
Lindelof, Maguire, AWB, Shaw, McTominay, Fred, Pogba, Martial etc are all fantastic.
Caporegime
Baz you don't even understand the difference between someone avoiding the question (I'm not even sure which question I'm avoiding. I said you made things up and you just seemed to gloss over that and pretend it didn't happen) and someone not wanting to discuss with you because you are so overly hostile and make up comments to suit whatever argument you're trying to make.
The question is, what was the point of the 2-4 signings comment if it wasn't that Utd would be where they want to be with 2-4 signings?
And you can hardly make that remark when you were the one that started the snide remarks
I shouldn't respond in kind but I can't help myself sometimes.
Caporegime
Telling someone they're using a strawman is a snide remark? (which you're still ignoring I see)The question is, what was the point of the 2-4 signings comment if it wasn't that Utd would be where they want to be with 2-4 signings?
And you can hardly make that remark when you were the one that started the snide remarks
What was the point of the 2-4 signings? Because that is a guess of how many signings we're going to make this summer
You then somehow added in the "and then we're going to win everything and the Man Utd is perfect!" which you keep claiming I'm saying. Yeah you can't help yourself that you do this so much...but it's ok you're a mod so trolling is fine for you.The sentence right before that was your snide remark, as you know.Telling someone they're using a strawman is a snide remark? (which you're still ignoring I see)
What was the point of the 2-4 signings? Because that is a guess of how many signings we're going to make this summer
And if that was your point then can you please tell me the relevance to the argument? Utd could sign nobody, does that change my point that Utd need to make wholesale changes? And there's a difference between trolling and pointing out that whenever anybody says something negative about Utd you will tell them they're wrong. As I said, when issues around each and everyone of the players I've listed has been brought up you have told everybody they're wrong.
Caporegime
Cool, explain how the above is anything but trolling please? Or will you just gloss over this like you gloss over the strawmanning?
And I made that point because it's the transfer thread, Baz. We were talking about transfers and what new managers do.
I've not glossed over it, I've said I've responded in kind with snide remarks. You have defended all those players when people have said they're not very good though, right?
Caporegime
I don't know Baz, you're the one that likes to keep a record of thing people say years ago and hold it against them for an eternity. Apparently if I say anything good about a player then according to you it means I think they're great for ever and they can do no wrong. You're exhausting and you actually think you're doing nothing wrong.
I'm not holding anything against you but if you're not willing to debate in good faith and your edit to your previous post is conclusive proof of that and will resort to snide remarks then I will respond in kind.
Caporegime
Lmao, you just bring it up multiple times but you're not holding anything against me. You also strawman and then have the nerve to claim that I don't debate in good faith. I never figured you were a hypocrite too
How about we get back to transfers?