Summer Transfer Window 23/24

sigma said:
150? British/English player tax? If it's United then it will be 250 probably!
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There’s been mention of £120m. They maintain they won’t be bullied into accepting less, but if Rice has made his mind up, it would be folly for them to trap him for another year.

I think it could end up about £80m + £20m add ons in the end.
 
Rice is a decent player but he's not worth anything like the figures touted about. With (effectively) 2 years left on his deal West Ham will sell him this summer and if the buying club get a commitment from Rice then I'd be amazed if the fee is anything like £100m.
 
There’s no midfielder worth over 100.

Rice value is closer to 70-80 with the English tax.

Even at that that’s expensive.

Westham trying to start a bidding war.

That doesn’t happen it be no where near the 100.
 
BaZ87 said:
We've got big Ibou for the RCB but I've no doubt that we'll be in for another CB that's comfortable in wider positions.

Re the 6 role, playing with the new system eases the need for an out and out defensive midfielder. Fabinho looks much better again with somebody alongside him, we have Bajcetic coming through and assuming he signs, Mac Allister is very comfortably in a double pivot.

We've always looked to defend from the front of the pitch and getting more energy and physicality into the two number 8s will improve us immeasurably.
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I also think that Gomez deserves a chance at that RCB role, it seems almost tailor made for him if he can recover his form (which I appreciate is very much an if). Similarly, I've said before that Trent coming in off the left rather than the right could be interesting. Gomez could then effectively do the "Robbo" role from the right, starting at RB and shifting inside when Trent goes into midfield.

I'm concerned about relying too heavily on the new system. It's worked very well for a quarter of a season, but things change fast. I'd still like to see us get someone more senior than Bajcetic (despite his clear quality) who can push Fabinho, even if it's an older player who's later in his career and may not mind time on the bench.

I agree with your main point though, that improving higher up the pitch will automatically make the 6's job easier. Fabinho lost form, but did not become bad overnight - his job became more difficult as our pressing has dropped away so significantly at left wing (losing Mane), CF (Bobby playing less), and in the other two midfield positions.


BaZ87 said:
Rice is a decent player but he's not worth anything like the figures touted about. With (effectively) 2 years left on his deal West Ham will sell him this summer and if the buying club get a commitment from Rice then I'd be amazed if the fee is anything like £100m.
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I don't agree with this, though. If Bellingham is £120m, Rice is £80-100m albeit his contractual position affects that. I think Rice is exceptional and will shine in a big team. The one caveat is that it needs to be a big team which is functioning - if he comes into something like the Man Utd setup two years ago, he'll falter. If he went to City, or Arsenal if they continue their building and advance on what they've done this year, I think he's pushing Rodri as the best in that role.
 
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I was never keen on Rice but I have changed my tune a bit over time - he's pretty good. £80m I can see but £100m+, not really.

Don't think we're after him as Shami said above, at least at present.

robfosters said:
Who is on your radar for the midfield?
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There is no radar. The sale has frozen everything...
 
manic111 said:
I also think that Gomez deserves a chance at that RCB role, it seems almost tailor made for him if he can recover his form (which I appreciate is very much an if). Similarly, I've said before that Trent coming in off the left rather than the right could be interesting. Gomez could then effectively do the "Robbo" role from the right, starting at RB and shifting inside when Trent goes into midfield.

I'm concerned about relying too heavily on the new system. It's worked very well for a quarter of a season, but things change fast. I'd still like to see us get someone more senior than Bajcetic (despite his clear quality) who can push Fabinho, even if it's an older player who's later in his career and may not mind time on the bench.

I agree with your main point though, that improving higher up the pitch will automatically make the 6's job easier. Fabinho lost form, but did not become bad overnight - his job became more difficult as our pressing has dropped away so significantly at left wing (losing Mane), CF (Bobby playing less), and in the other two midfield positions.



I don't agree with this, though. If Bellingham is £120m, Rice is £80-100m albeit his contractual position affects that. I think Rice is exceptional and will shine in a big team. The one caveat is that it needs to be a big team which is functioning - if he comes into something like the Man Utd setup two years ago, he'll falter. If he went to City, or Arsenal if they continue their building and advance on what they've done this year, I think he's pushing Rodri as the best in that role.
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I wouldn't have an issue with Gomez playing the Robbo role on the right in isolation but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with Trent starting from LB. It's hard enough adapting to this new system and knowing when to be a midfielder and when to be a fullback already, let alone learning to play on the left too. Gomez did start his Liverpool career playing LB and in this system he'd be far more suited to playing there now.

Re the new system and the need for a 6, if you think back to around the time Diaz and Jota got injured (Octoberish time), we had already moved to a 2 man central midfield. We started playing a 4-2-3-1/4-4-2 system more but then had to move away from it when we had nobody to play on the left. My main concern with the new system is it's so reliant on Trent. If he were to be out for any prolonged period, it's difficult to see how we could carry on playing that way. That all said, I'm certainly not against signing an out and out defensive midfielder, I just don't think it's as much of a priority now. If we're going to be playing with 2 sitting midfielders (whether that's the new system or a 4-2-3-1), we've got a lot of options that can play there. What we don't have is the numbers in the two 8 roles. Henderson does a job there but he's not ideally suited, leaving just Elliott and Jones and as well as Jones has done of late, I don't want to be relying on those two for most of the season.

I really don't see the love-in with Rice that others do. His physicality, drive, determination etc are top class but his actual technical ability is a long way below the best midfielders around. I don't want to dismiss the qualities he has because a lot of what he has we've lacked this season but I don't believe you need to spend £100m to find a player that can get about the pitch and put tackles in. Bellingham does all of that and his technical ability is on a different level to Rice's. I'm sure there are dozens of Rice's available around Europe but you'd be hard pushed to find more than a handful of Bellingham's.

edit: to explain my Rice point a bit better, take Joelinton at Newcastle. He was signed as a forward and was the laughing stock of the League until Howe showed up. Howe took a look at him and realised he's not technically good enough to play in an attacking role but he's big, strong and can get about the pitch and turned him into midfield destroyer. It doesn't take anything like £100m to find a player with those attributes to do almost everything Rice is good at.
 
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robfosters said:
Who is on your radar for the midfield?
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Good question. We'll find out a week before the window closes probably. Ideally we need a backup for Casemiro and someone to play alongside him because Eriksen can't play every game. McTominay might leave, we'll have to see. The only midfielder we seem to have been linked with so far is Rabiot. Our only other real links that seem remotely credible so far seem to be strikers (Kane, Osimhein, Ramos, Hojland and Muani seem the most mentioned). We've been linked with Frimpong from Leverkusen but that was a while ago and AWB seems to be back in favour so who knows. Also some rumours with David Raya being a target.
 
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BaZ87 said:
I wouldn't have an issue with Gomez playing the Robbo role on the right in isolation but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with Trent starting from LB. It's hard enough adapting to this new system and knowing when to be a midfielder and when to be a fullback already, let alone learning to play on the left too. Gomez did start his Liverpool career playing LB and in this system he'd be far more suited to playing there now.

Re the new system and the need for a 6, if you think back to around the time Diaz and Jota got injured (Octoberish time), we had already moved to a 2 man central midfield. We started playing a 4-2-3-1/4-4-2 system more but then had to move away from it when we had nobody to play on the left. My main concern with the new system is it's so reliant on Trent. If he were to be out for any prolonged period, it's difficult to see how we could carry on playing that way. That all said, I'm certainly not against signing an out and out defensive midfielder, I just don't think it's as much of a priority now. If we're going to be playing with 2 sitting midfielders (whether that's the new system or a 4-2-3-1), we've got a lot of options that can play there. What we don't have is the numbers in the two 8 roles. Henderson does a job there but he's not ideally suited, leaving just Elliott and Jones and as well as Jones has done of late, I don't want to be relying on those two for most of the season.

I really don't see the love-in with Rice that others do. His physicality, drive, determination etc are top class but his actual technical ability is a long way below the best midfielders around. I don't want to dismiss the qualities he has because a lot of what he has we've lacked this season but I don't believe you need to spend £100m to find a player that can get about the pitch and put tackles in. Bellingham does all of that and his technical ability is on a different level to Rice's. I'm sure there are dozens of Rice's available around Europe but you'd be hard pushed to find more than a handful of Bellingham's.

edit: to explain my Rice point a bit better, take Joelinton at Newcastle. He was signed as a forward and was the laughing stock of the League until Howe showed up. Howe took a look at him and realised he's not technically good enough to play in an attacking role but he's big, strong and can get about the pitch and turned him into midfield destroyer. It doesn't take anything like £100m to find a player with those attributes to do almost everything Rice is good at.
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I agree with most of this, including that I can't see how we can go back to the old system as the whole team has looked better with a double pivot. Equally though, if Macallister is our first priority I'd like our second to be someone a little more defensively minded.

To an extent, I agree regarding Rice, but I think you're underselling him technically. He's very adept in tight spaces, progresses the ball well, and is a more than reasonable passer and finisher. I appreciate that your point was not to compare him directly with Joelinton, but aside from his ability to get around the pitch Rice is better in every aspect of his game. I also think that in a side where he's able to release forward more often (for instance, if he were to play with a double pivot) he'd be involved much more frequently up the pitch. It's all hypothetical at the moment of course, but I see Rice as more of a Henderson with a far higher ceiling (and no disrespect to Henderson) than another Fabinho.
 
robfosters said:
Vinicius may look to leave Spain soon unless something is done about the racist abuse he suffers.

Probably end up at City though. :rolleyes:
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Dunno, I doubt it. Hes been putting up with it for years and he probably likes living in Madrid. For a huge number of players Barca and RM are still the absolute pinnacle of their careers no matter what state the clubs are in.
 
manic111 said:
I agree with most of this, including that I can't see how we can go back to the old system as the whole team has looked better with a double pivot. Equally though, if Macallister is our first priority I'd like our second to be someone a little more defensively minded.

To an extent, I agree regarding Rice, but I think you're underselling him technically. He's very adept in tight spaces, progresses the ball well, and is a more than reasonable passer and finisher. I appreciate that your point was not to compare him directly with Joelinton, but aside from his ability to get around the pitch Rice is better in every aspect of his game. I also think that in a side where he's able to release forward more often (for instance, if he were to play with a double pivot) he'd be involved much more frequently up the pitch. It's all hypothetical at the moment of course, but I see Rice as more of a Henderson with a far higher ceiling (and no disrespect to Henderson) than another Fabinho.
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Now you've done it. The Newcastle statos will be out in force now proving how Joelinton is the best player in the league.
 
Rice is a decent enough player, but really he's just an expensive water carrier.

And the figures being quoted when he has 12 months left on his contract are just ridiculous.
 
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manic111 said:
I agree with most of this, including that I can't see how we can go back to the old system as the whole team has looked better with a double pivot. Equally though, if Macallister is our first priority I'd like our second to be someone a little more defensively minded.

To an extent, I agree regarding Rice, but I think you're underselling him technically. He's very adept in tight spaces, progresses the ball well, and is a more than reasonable passer and finisher. I appreciate that your point was not to compare him directly with Joelinton, but aside from his ability to get around the pitch Rice is better in every aspect of his game. I also think that in a side where he's able to release forward more often (for instance, if he were to play with a double pivot) he'd be involved much more frequently up the pitch. It's all hypothetical at the moment of course, but I see Rice as more of a Henderson with a far higher ceiling (and no disrespect to Henderson) than another Fabinho.
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Maybe I'm being slightly harsh on Rice but even your own description of his passing and finishing is just 'more than reasonable'. An £80m midfielder should be a lot more than more than reasonable. I don't want to be too critical of him because I do think he's a decent player but I just can't get my head around the sort of fee being spoke about.

I agree with your comparison to Henderson though and coming back to the change of midfield set-up, if we were still playing with a 3 man midfield I'd be much keener on Rice or somebody similar. He would be your long term upgrade that can both provide cover/competition for the 6 but also a perfect RCM with Trent pushing on from RB. I know Henderson is playing as an 8 in the new system but I think that's more a case of needs must and we're likely to see more attack minded players in those roles moving forwards and not somewhere I see Rice fitting into our side.
 
Licking my Lips here and I’ve taken screenshots at the Joelinton praise incase anyone try’s to stealth edit :)

To late now.

With regards to Rice and Joe

People do underestimate both players.

They do have overlapping qualities.

Balling wining, ball carrying gods of football would be the overlapping ones.

But they are slightly different.

For a number 6 Rice all day long. Has much better progressives passing stats.

Deployed higher up the pitch Joe comes into his own. Take ons, progressive receiving, pressing etc.


Jude probably has the more desirable attributes of both which is why he’s the most chased midfielder atm.
 
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