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SuperPi puts me off Skylake

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18 Mar 2003
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1,129
(Before I post some findings let's not dig up this old argument of why SuperPi is not needed, or why single threaded benchmarks is Zzzzzzzzz. It is needed by some as a way of determining custom application performance; it is a time tested benchmark; it is used by major review sites :D )

SuperPi in the Sky
Looking at some of the benchmarks for Skylake and Haswell I noticed that clock for clock SuperPi scores are worse on Skylake.

This is a big disappointment, as usually the tick-tock performance increases as quoted by Intel have generally translated into those performance gains in SuperPi (from Sandybridge to Haswell +15% etc.). But on one site I see this:

SuperPi 1M
i7 6700K 8.643
i7 4790K 8.159

I appreciate the 4790K will ramp up to 4.4Ghz, whilst the 6700K will ramp up to 4.2Ghz. But equalising the clock speeds the 6700K is about 1% behind the 4790K.

Reading Stulid's GA-Z170XP-SLI Review where the 6700K is overclocked to 4.6Ghz, and comparing that to my 4770K clocked at 4.6Ghz reveals this:

SuperPi 1M
i7 6700K @4.6Ghz 8.003
i7 4770K @4.6Ghz 7.846

That puts Skylake as being 2% worse than my 4770K. So much for a "20% improvement" as quote by Intel.

So why is Skylake so bad for this benchmark?

CPU or Chipset Architecture
Is there something different in the processor or chipset that causes this?

Memory
My 4770K is DDR3 at 2133Mhz, whilst Stulid's test was DDR4 at 2800Mhz. I believe SuperPi performance is dependent on mem speed so you would expect the 2800 to be better.

Maybe this is a latency issue?

My timings are: 9-11-10-27-278-2T

SuperFlawed
Maybe SuperPi is misreading the results because of the architecture? Like on some mobos there is an option to correct a 3D gaming benchmark or something.

I am using SuperPi Mod 1.5 XS
 
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You know. I was in two minds to put the disclaimer (Before I ... at the end of the post but assumed starting off with it would prevent those very replies I did not want :D

Can anyone answer the questions?

Is it the memory? Is it the timings? What are the tightest timings you can get for DDR4 2133Mhz? Would that make SuperPi results faster for Skylake?

Edit. Just saw P4Clocks reply.
 
Just checked some SuperPi results for OCd 5820K.

5820K @4.584Ghz 16GB Ripjaws @2716MHz = 7.846

That is exactly the same (spookily exactly the same) as my 4770K

Another test

5820K @4.7Ghz CL14.0 14-14-35 (speed not quoted) = 7.840

I guess it is the case that DDR4 timings is the problem for me here. Hmm. May have to hold off on the upgrade.
 
There is more to life than gaming. Some use rigs for:

Financial modelling, medical research, weather forecasting, simulations, a whole host of number crunching solutions.

In some instances multiple cores may not be the answer. Faster Ghz and lower latencies is the key to being overall faster than a previous rig.

Think of it like a vehicle that you you use to get across the county. Sure you can have your 3.2L four cylinder Jag that gets you, your nan, grandad and the kids to the shops quick enough. You also have plenty of boot space for the shopping. Then someone can have a V6 Cayenne or something that has more space and will transport your goods quicker.

But imagine you are in a city that is constant stop-start. Traffic lights, traffic, roundabouts. What is needed here is a vehicle that can hit 155MPH on the open road (as fast as the V6) but more importantly has the fastest standing start getaway speed.

In order to do that you strip out the seats, change the wheels, upgrade the suspension. Sure it's now no good for transporting your Nan to Asda but it sure is the fastest way to do letter drops.

So every two years FordTel produce a new leaner engine. They say "it's 20% faster than our 2013 model" and history shows this to be correct. But in 2015 their new Skylake engine runs into a problem for the letter drop guys. Yes it now hits 165MPH, yes it's got plenty of room for Nan, Grandad and little Tarquin. But they did something to the wheels. The standing start 0-60 speed has now got 1% WORSE rather than 20% better. It seems that the tyres are causing wheel spin (re: higher latency) and for someone who needs to zip around town this is a big problem.

Memory Latency
This is the issue for me. I think a solution could be this:

White Dragon "SUPER Low-Latency" 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-24000C13 3000MHz Dual Channel Kit - Blue

That is 3000MHz RAM Speed, CAS 13-13-13-35 Timings

or then there is this:

Savage Black 8GB (2x4GB) DDR4 PC4-19200C12 2400MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black (HX424C12SBK2/8

2400MHz RAM Speed, CAS 12-14-14-28 Timings

I guess I need to purchase both and see the trade off between wheel spin and high cruising speed; to see which is the best at doing all those letter drops around town.
 
Database stuff.

I tend to update the rig every couple of years in order to get a 10-20% performance boost from the new technology. It looks as though this move to DDR4 will not see this kind of performance increase for some of the tasks this rig performs.
 
It's custom designed, which works best with the highest OCs available and the lowest latencies. For that reason multi core is no use. Neither is stock speeds.

I will give it a go with a 6700K and try a few different mem sticks.
 
This conversation has happened before and it will happen again :D

Look. The OCs are fine. The RAM is fine. Why can't some people accept that there are certain users out that that require rigs like this?

---

mmj_uk Yes to benchmark testing. As I said it is mostly custom stuff so no Access or SQL on this rig,

One particular process has been performed since 1997. I always come here for advice on the best / fastest platform for (my rig). In previous years I have used

Pentium 400?
Celeron 3.6Ghz?
5600X2
PhenomII ?
2500K
4770K

A few years ago (I think when I switched to / from AMD) I asked users of this forum to run a custom written benchmark file. I believe I give out a gift voucher to the person that had the best results.

I have also (10+ years ago) gone into PC stores with a CD and fired it up. Amazingly the sales staff would let me do that. I doubt they would now, but then again :D
 
Scougar. It's xBase language / format. Various programs are run for processing sports information. There is no need for the bloat of large database frameworks. It's all run in a DOS box.

Rroff and Phil2008s examples. This is the point I am trying to make here (of which some do not see the point). As each new technology appears there is a distinct change in SuperPi performance. I seem to remember the AMDs hitting 30 then 20 seconds. When Sandybridge came along it was around 10 seconds, Haswell around 8 (I get 7.846 @4.6Ghz). Skylake has now reversed that drop.

I am reminded of a thread I started 5 years, where I asked Will 1 sec 1 Million Super Pi ever be achieved? :D
 
I use Harbour. Remember this is custom stuff, so the fact that MariaDB 10.1 can do 1 million queries per second does not mean I should switch this rig to MariaDB (incidently the server version of the rig does use MariaDB).

It's not so much that the code runs slow that is the issue. Some of the tasks are long processing loops producing summaries, some of the tasks just take in realtime data and produce suggestions on the fly.

It's just that at every tock stage it is nice to receive a performance boost purely from the hardware. It has always been a quick and easy way to get an instant ~15% increase in performance.

As suggested in the 1 second SuperPi thread it seems for certain tasks technology was going to hit the sound barrier and would need a totally different platform to get past it. That sound barrier is Skylake. The new supersonic equivalent platform is not even on the horizon as Kaby Lake and Cannonlake are still using the same design so nothing will change quite yet. SuperPi world records will not be broken.
 
Guys Guys. Trust me the OC is stable, ECC is NOT needed. Nightly builds are fine and besides you don't have to run the latest build if you don't want to.

This is not a critical medical app and it's not a rig that is used to control the skies. Don't worry about it!
 
If anyone is interested I got this rig up and running now.

i7-6700K (OEM)
GA-Z170XP-SLI
Savage Black 8GB (2x4GB) DDR4 PC4-19200C12 2400MHz
Hydro 75


I can confirm the SuperPi scores are not as good as the 4700K (for the reason noted earlier, namely timings). However, the other advantages from this newer platform make up for that.

1. This is a good clocker, with cooler temperatures. I can hit 5Ghz with tuning ease (fails prime but there is room for tweaking).

2. The memory bandwidth change to DDR has shown a big improvement with the Ramdrive. Previously I was getting 4GB Read, 4.7GB Write but this is now hitting 6.6GB and 6.9GB respectively. This is at 2133Mhz. I have not tried the stock 2400 or any other tuning of the memory so these figures could be even better.

3. As for my apps I can see around 10-15% improvement over the 4770K at the same clock speed of 4.6Ghz. So that fact that I can hit at least 4.8Ghz+ stable means that this rig should be 15%-20% faster overall. I will be happy with that.

overclocking-i7-6700k-5ghz.jpg
 
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