swapped switch for a router, but...

FatRakoon · 23 Feb 2009 at 02:01

My main Modem/Router is a Linksys WAG354. Works great. no problems.

My switch was a mercury 8 port job and its a fair age so it owes me nothing and has to this day worked flawleslly

My main PC is connected directly to the Linksys.
The Switch is also connected directly to the Linksys
All other PCs are connected to the Switch by Ehternet and the Linksys provides Wireless access to my LapTops.

Fairly straight forward so far.

Now, my switch has just died on me. I have however a number of DLINK DL-514 Routers, so its a shame to buy a new Swicth when I can use one or two of these.

Now, I connected one up... I only really need one at this time, for 3 of the LAN PCs.

I have one small problem now though.

While they all have internet access, as they all should have, they cant seem to get to talk to each other?

Ok the Linksys Modem/Router is at 192.168.1.1 and its setup to assign 192.168.1.64 and upwards, so thats fine, ist dynamically assigned by the way.... The DLINK router is 192.168.0.1

Clearly, I need it to be 1 and so, I have set it to be 192.168.1.2 so they are on teh same page now.

The problem here is that now nothing will talk to anything through the DLINK?

Do I need it to asign an IP or DNS or what? Will the Linksys do that?

Im kind of a network fanny TBH

What can anyone offer me to point me in the right direction?

Thanks.

Werewolf · 23 Feb 2009 at 02:29

You need to disable the DHCP part of one of the routers (probably the Dlink given your setup), then either use it as a wireless bridge with switch, or just run a wire from one of the LAN ports on the modem/router, to the LAN ports on the one that's had it's DHCP turned off.

It's actually easier to just get a second switch, unless you want/need the second device to act as a bridge as well.

FatRakoon · 23 Feb 2009 at 03:02

Ok, DHCP to off on the DLINK... Right.

The Linksys-Modem/router is in my living room.
The Switch ( Now the DLINK ) is in my LAN Room... 3 floors away.

Of course you are right, the obvious thing to do, would be to simply go out an buy another switch, but I have these DLinks here doing nothing, and they can do the job of a switch, so I dont want to spend any money if I can help it.

The other bonus of this DLINK, is that while both the DLINK and the Linksys have Wireless capability, I have found, for some strange reason that when I used this DLink as purely a wireless access point in the past, for basic internet access, I am able to get a good 90% or better signal from in the far end of the garden. The DLink or Linksys on their own, I get nothing.

Go figure?

Ok, I will do that shortly...

Many thanks.

FatRakoon · 24 Feb 2009 at 00:45

Well, it seems that disabling DHCP on the DLINK stops all access to even its homepage forcing the need to reset the router.

I have also brought out a Netgear DG834 as a tester. as this has the very same default IP of 192.168.0.1 as the DLINK has... I thought Id have a look to see what is what there, and I set the DLINK to be 192.168.0.2 and also I tried it at 0.200 as well but in both cases, I was never once able to get ay computer to talk to anything when the Netgear was in use?

I have however dug out an old 4-port hub... It will do for now.

I will try the Router way again.. Such a shame that Im unable to right now?

Thanks for the help mate.

bremen1874 · 24 Feb 2009 at 03:17

What you're trying to do should work. I'd guess that you've either not disabled enough of the functionality in the router you want to use as a switch, or you're connecting the wrong ports.

This article on the Netgear site may steer you in the right direction. It's not exactly what you're trying to do but the principle is the same.

Dist · 24 Feb 2009 at 03:45

Are you sure that on the router you are using just as a switch is connected to the router using its switch ports, and that its WAN port is empty? Also make sure that all devices are on the same network as the main router (192.168.1.x). You may need to set the default gateway on the 2nd router to the IP of the main router which should be 192.168.1.1

Make sure all end devices either use DHCP served my the main router, or have a static ip on the correct network.

If all that is correct and it still does not work then i seem to be out of ideas.

FatRakoon · 24 Feb 2009 at 09:36

bremen1874 said:
What you're trying to do should work. I'd guess that you've either not disabled enough of the functionality in the router you want to use as a switch, or you're connecting the wrong ports.

Im no expert in Networking, but I have built this network up myself and I can assure you that I am using the correct ports... I have however doubled checked... You never know! LOL

As for disabling enough of the functionality, it seems that as soon as I disable DHCP, I lose access to the DLINKS own homepage and so I cannot set anything else up without resorting to a RESET.

bremen1874 said:
This article on the Netgear site may steer you in the right direction. It's not exactly what you're trying to do but the principle is the same.

I will have a look all the same, it might just flick a mental switch that could lead me to the goal?

Dist said:
Are you sure that on the router you are using just as a switch is connected to the router using its switch ports, and that its WAN port is empty? Also make sure that all devices are on the same network as the main router (192.168.1.x). You may need to set the default gateway on the 2nd router to the IP of the main router which should be 192.168.1.1

Make sure all end devices either use DHCP served my the main router, or have a static ip on the correct network.

If all that is correct and it still does not work then i seem to be out of ideas.

Yes, ports are good.

I have also been using coloured LAN Cables anyway, so they are all correct.
The IP has been a funny one.
The Linksys defaults to 192.168.1.1 and it assigns from 1.64 which Im ok with.
The DLINK defaults from 192.168.0.1 and if I set it to 1.1 then it vanishes completely???

So, I have swapped out the Linksys for a netgear as they default as least to the same network, or they default to 192.168.0.1

I have then set the DLINK to 192.168.0.0 or 0.2 or even 0.200 and its gateway I have set to that of the NETGEAR or 192.168.0.1

But once I click on OK, its gone until I reset??

Now, as I said... When using the Linksys ( 192.168.0.1 ) and the DLINK ( 192.168.1.1 ) and they are both reset and both use their own ways to do things, I have no problems getting everythign to access the internet... Thats not a problem at all...

The problem is getting the PCs to talk to each other!?

---

Thanks all... I will have another play...

Dist · 24 Feb 2009 at 13:36

A few things you should know, is that an IP of 192.168.0.0 is not a usable IP (at least not with the default subnet mask), and the last IP in the range is not usable either (192.168.0.255), as this is reserved for broadcast on that subnet.

One of the reasons changing the routers settings can cause problem is due to the default IPs being on different networks. If your pc has an ip of 192.168.1.1 assigned to you by one router, you wont be able to (or at least not easily) be able to access a device with a 192.168.0.x IP. And if you change the IP of the router you can access to 192.168.0.1 then you wont be able to access that either after you accept the changes because your PC will be on a different subnet.

My advice, try set yout main router to 192.168.0.1, your 2nd router which you use as a switch to 192.168.0.2, and make sure DHCP is set on your main router to provide IPs in the 192.168.0.x range. Once all is done, check that all PCs are correctly assigned an IP in the 192.168.0.x range and that 192.168.0.1 is their main gateway. If that is all correct they should all be able to communicate.

bremen1874 · 24 Feb 2009 at 13:47

Now, as I said... When using the Linksys ( 192.168.0.1 ) and the DLINK ( 192.168.1.1 ) and they are both reset and both use their own ways to do things, I have no problems getting everythign to access the internet... Thats not a problem at all...

The problem is getting the PCs to talk to each other!?

The only way I can see the above scenario working is if you've connected the WAN port of the second router to a LAN port on the first router.

You say the routers are disappearing after you change their IP addresses. Make sure you are changing the IP address of the PC your connecting from to one in the new range before trying to reconnect to the router or it will disappear.

If the router that you want to work as a switch has a gateway address set (and it's using it) then you'll get traffic disappearing into a black hole as it'll try to route traffic through the WAN port which shouldn't be connected to anything.

The colour of network cables doesn't tell you anything about how they are wired.

errata · 24 Feb 2009 at 13:48

If you want to retain access to the setup page of the dlink whilst you mess about with various dlink and router settings the usual solution is to set the dlink's IP to a higher IP range and then set the main router's subnet lower so you can see it

This gives you more room to move the IP addresses of various devices to known accessible locations guaranteed well away from possible IP conflicts.

Setting dlink first on its own, wire in from a PC to a LAN port, repair PC connection

from web config page turn off its dhcp server, set the router address IP to 192.168.2.1 (notice the 2.1)

Apply and reboot

Set up the router, wire in on its own from a pc suing a lan port, repair connection etc

If your router is on 192.168.1.1 sub net 255.255.255.0 and assigns from 192.168.1.64 upwards

then change its LAN subnet to 255.255.0.0, (notice the 0.0) apply and restart

Wire the pc to the router and the router to the dlink using lan ports only.

On restarting router, then pc then dlink you should be able to access the routers and dlinks set up pages on 192.168.1.1 and 192.168.2.1

You can try run>cmd then IPCONFIG /all on the varius PC's to check they have recieved IP's and valid gateways etc from the router via the dlink

You should see connections via the dlink getting IP's from the router in the range 192.168.1.64+ with gateway and dns being the routers address

The most likely error will be if the dlink does not pass on the routers DNS and gateway IP's correctly from the router to its switch and wireless access point.

Quick fix is to set on the PC a manual DNS and gateway thats the same as your router ie 195.168.1.1 . If you also dont get a valid Ip try setting a static ip for the pc say 192.168.1.65, repair or restart etc

OR

try to set gateway and dns on the dlink to the routers IP setting ie 192.168.1.1, (gateway of 0.0.0.0 sometimes works as well) and use automatic ip and dns etc on the PC's

Some routers make you re-enter several values even if want to just change one, if so just enter the known existing details manually

FatRakoon · 24 Feb 2009 at 16:13

Dist said:
A few things you should know, is that an IP of 192.168.0.0 is not a usable IP (at least not with the default subnet mask), and the last IP in the range is not usable either (192.168.0.255), as this is reserved for broadcast on that subnet.

I didnt know about 0.0, but obvious realyl as they all seem to start at 1 dont they? so cool on that, but I did know about 255
I was merely only experimenting more than anything

Dist said:
One of the reasons changing the routers settings can cause problem is due to the default IPs being on different networks. If your pc has an ip of 192.168.1.1 assigned to you by one router, you wont be able to (or at least not easily) be able to access a device with a 192.168.0.x IP. And if you change the IP of the router you can access to 192.168.0.1 then you wont be able to access that either after you accept the changes because your PC will be on a different subnet.

Yes, I see that, which is why I have alos tried the NETGEAR router instead of the LINKSYS, because the Netgear defauly is the same as the DLINK

Linksys = 1.1 / Netgear = 0.1 / DLink = 0.1 - Naturally, at standard the DLINK and netgear will conflict, but if I try changing the DLINK to something like 0.2 although everything does seem to work, I cannot access internet or the LAN.

Dist said:
My advice, try set yout main router to 192.168.0.1, your 2nd router which you use as a switch to 192.168.0.2, and make sure DHCP is set on your main router to provide IPs in the 192.168.0.x range. Once all is done, check that all PCs are correctly assigned an IP in the 192.168.0.x range and that 192.168.0.1 is their main gateway. If that is all correct they should all be able to communicate.

BINGO THATS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE DONE

However, while everything connected to the LINKSYS ( Or NETGEAR, BUT NOT BOTH AT THE SAME TIME OF COURSE ) works just fine, everything connected to the DLINK does not?

Even if they do get given IPs in the correct range ( 0,x for the NetGear or 1.x for the Linksys )

It still does not seem to want to work?

bremen1874 said:
The only way I can see the above scenario working is if you've connected the WAN port of the second router to a LAN port on the first router.

Thats done.

bremen1874 said:
You say the routers are disappearing after you change their IP addresses. Make sure you are changing the IP address of the PC your connecting from to one in the new range before trying to reconnect to the router or it will disappear.

AH, so you are saying to assing it statically instead of Dynamic?
Right, ok, I will give that a go!

bremen1874 said:
If the router that you want to work as a switch has a gateway address set (and it's using it) then you'll get traffic disappearing into a black hole as it'll try to route traffic through the WAN port which shouldn't be connected to anything.

Well, when I check it, the gateway address is the IP for the Linksys ( The modem-router ). I thought this was correct?

bremen1874 said:
The colour of network cables doesn't tell you anything about how they are wired.

HaHa, no I know that. All my cables are straight through... I have removed all crossover cables, although on my network, it does not matter whether I use straight or crossover, but I am only using coloured cables because there is so many of them behind the back of the switch ( or DLink if I get this sorted out )

errata said:
If you want to retain access to the setup page of the dlink whilst you mess about with various dlink and router settings the usual solution is to set the dlink's IP to a higher IP range and then set the main router's subnet lower so you can see it

This gives you more room to move the IP addresses of various devices to known accessible locations guaranteed well away from possible IP conflicts.

Setting dlink first on its own, wire in from a PC to a LAN port, repair PC connection

from web config page turn off its dhcp server, set the router address IP to 192.168.2.1 (notice the 2.1)

Apply and reboot

Set up the router, wire in on its own from a pc suing a lan port, repair connection etc

If your router is on 192.168.1.1 sub net 255.255.255.0 and assigns from 192.168.1.64 upwards

then change its LAN subnet to 255.255.0.0, (notice the 0.0) apply and restart

Wire the pc to the router and the router to the dlink using lan ports only.

On restarting router, then pc then dlink you should be able to access the routers and dlinks set up pages on 192.168.1.1 and 192.168.2.1

You can try run>cmd then IPCONFIG /all on the varius PC's to check they have recieved IP's and valid gateways etc from the router via the dlink

You should see connections via the dlink getting IP's from the router in the range 192.168.1.64+ with gateway and dns being the routers address

The most likely error will be if the dlink does not pass on the routers DNS and gateway IP's correctly from the router to its switch and wireless access point.

Quick fix is to set on the PC a manual DNS and gateway thats the same as your router ie 195.168.1.1 . If you also dont get a valid Ip try setting a static ip for the pc say 192.168.1.65, repair or restart etc

OR

try to set gateway and dns on the dlink to the routers IP setting ie 192.168.1.1, (gateway of 0.0.0.0 sometimes works as well) and use automatic ip and dns etc on the PC's

Some routers make you re-enter several values even if want to just change one, if so just enter the known existing details manually

Ok, Im taking in about 50% of that so I will print it off...

255.255.0.0 ? Ok, right, as opposed to 255.255.255.0 I see.

DLINK above the Linksys then? - I see because as they are, the DLINK is 0.1 and the Linksys 1.1
But then when I tried the netgear, I set the DLINK to 0.2 ... or... ?

IPCONFIG did show the gateway of 192.168.1.1 the last time I looked but still would not go online?

What I need to do, to make sure that I am not missing anything out, ir print off all your replies and go through it all completely from scratch... I will do some adjustments that you are all giving me here, but then, I will reset the Linksys-modem/router, and the DLINK-Router.

Many thanks all... Its all confusing to me, but Im taking it in I promise.