Talk to me about mirror less DSLR's

[Phate]

Hello all!

Ok, so some of you know I'm quite into my Scuba Diving, so naturally I want to take my camera along and snap photos.

However...I'm reluctant to take my SLR for a few reasons...

1) If it floods, I've got a serious issue and an insurance claim to sort out.
2) If the above happens weeks before a wedding is due I'll be in trouble
3) They are big and bulky in a housing
4) The housings are typically the cost of the camera, and then a bit.

Now, when I was at a Dive Show at the NEC late last year I saw a photography stand showing housings build for mirror less SLR cameras, the housings were coming in around £600-£800 - which isn't bad at all! You could even buy 'wet' lenses to change underwater while on the move.

So, I want to find out more about these cameras, first few questions are...

1) Which ones to avoid? Which ones to go for?
2) Anything to look out for, feature wise?
3) IQ - are they as good as a typical DSLR? I know this is dictated massively by the lens in use, but I mean in general, for example a Canon one (if they even do one) may have a better range of lenses.
4) Price wise, do these go into the silly region or are they noticeably cheaper than a pro DSLR?

Any other guidance is welcome, I'm truly in the dark here

TIA
Jake

 

[Phate]

I think the main issue here is availability/suitability of different housing/lens combos, rather than suitability of mirrorless systems. Have a look on the dive forums. WetPixel would be a good place to start.

I'm not too fussed about the housing/lens combos as their seem to be suitable options for the main big brands. I'm going to try and build a short list of favourites and work my way through those to see whats available and go from there. Good shout on the forums, I'm going to take a look.

Also had a look at the EOS-M - Tasty camera which my current lenses would fit I think with an adaptor.

 

[Phate]

I love my Nikon 1. I have a J1 personally and my company has an AW1. The J1 goes in a Meike housing. Both get used on the end of a pole for video swim analysis.

They are really light, and perfect for casual analysis work where we don't have space for the full poolside kit. There's no doubting the image quality, and the lack of feel/control isn't really an issue in these circumstances.

As nice as that would be, it's only waterproof down to 15m. Most dives we hit 25m+

Looks like a nice bit of kit though. Does the non waterproof versions of it have the same sensor etc?

 

[Phate]

I'm at such a split decision right now, I look at underwater shots from the Nikon AW1 and the Canon EOS-M etc and the quality just isn't a patch on an DSLR being used.


Baaaaaah. I then see this http://vimeo.com/42737126 - and I want a housing for the MK3.

 

[Phate]

This seems unlikely given the EOS-M is basically a 650D in a different body. Of course the comparison is less fair if by DSLR you mean full frame DSLR

Whats available housing wise for the Olympus E-PL5? They're incredibly cheap at the moment, better IQ than the EOS-M with very good image stabilisation and a nice selection of fairly affordable fast primes. I see a lot of people on dive forums using the E-M5 - that's a brilliant little camera (I may be biased ) and can be had for under £400 used now.

I know what you mean, maybe it's just because I'm used to L glass and obviously these images were not taken with said glass

Olympus E-PL5, not heard of this one - I'll check it out.

Does anyone know what it's like selecting specific focal points on these cameras? Thats what annoys me most about most P&S cameras.

 

[Phate]

Thanks, that sounds great

 

[Phate]

This thread reminds me of a review I've seen a while back comparing EVIL and DSLR in underwater environment, should give you a pretty good idea of what to expect in terms of IQ:

http://www.divephotoguide.com/under...cial-features/article/evil-vs-dslr--showdown/

The review is from a year ago though, the newest mirror-less offerings have much improved performance.

Hope this helps

Hi Steve,

Thanks very much for that link, just spent the past 15-20 minutes reading it and loved every second of it. It's fantastic to see a direct comparison like that by actual photographers.

A lot of the reviews I read were not by pro photographers but by divers who enjoyed photography, whereas these guys seemed to know what they were talking about which was more reassuring and gave a good comparison between the two.

That has made the decision for me. Even though last night I found a recommended housing for the 5D3 which comes in at £1600 made by a company called Ikelite - It's going to cost me roughly this much if not a little more to buy a camera, lenses, housing and adaptors - probably just over £2k in total - but at least I'll have peace of mind that if I damage any of it I can get it replaced under insurance and not have to worry about affecting client work. Plus it would be nice to have a small carry around camera for going into town etc. It'll be interesting to have a new bit of tech to play with and to learn a new form of photography...I've dabbled in UW Photography, and I can tell you it's an entirely different kettle of fish

Now I've decided to 100% go ahead with a mirror less system I need to pick a camera, lens setup and lights etc....it's all very exciting

Might pick up the camera in the next couple of weeks so I can start playing

 

[Phate]

Welcome to the really dark side

Worrying, I know

 

[Phate]

Ah the flirting signals between you two is so cute

 

[Phate]

So I've come back to this, after doing more research.

Found the following...



So the Olympus E-M5 and Sony NEX-5 are both out, they produce arguably truly stunning images, but not enough of an improvement over the others for the additional cost, so lets forget those two for the time being.

To go through them quickly...

Canon EOS-M

Naturally, I'm Canon biased - it's such a shame the housing is so expensive for these cameras, also I doubt there will be an alternative as the EOS-M2 is rumoured to be in the works and due out soonish. I might email Ikelite (my preferred housing company) to see if they are developing anything. If so it could be worth holding out. The camera ticks all the boxes otherwise.

Olympus E-PL5

Lots of you raved about this camera, also Olympus make a housing for it themselves which I like the idea of and with a total cost of £737 for camera + housing, this really isn't bad. I'll have to see if I can hold one and possibly hire to try out.

Sony RX100 ii

From what I've read this is supposed to be one of 'the' best compact mirror less camera going, the first is VERY highly regarded and its at a very attractive price and the housing is cheap as well.

My next plans are:

Visit somewhere which stocks these 2 cameras and hold/play with them, go through the menus, find out how easily accessible all of the options are, I don't want to be gaffing through menus when I'm also controlling buoyancy and air consumption - look at the build quality and find comparisons for IQ of them online, above and below water if possible. Then when I've made a decision I want to try and hire what I want to buy in the long run for my trip in July to use it for a couple of weeks to see how I get on

 

[Phate]

E-pl5 is only 287 body only from srs. My gf has one now so I've been playing with it a bit and can still recommend one. Beware trying them out - the default menu layout and options are competent retarded. Read up on enabling the super control panel and how mysets work before going.

Is pretty customisable, if you want me to check anything in particular just shout.

Oooh thanks

Who are SRS?

I shall have a read up before going to look at one - will try to pop to a curry's or something to have a play with them.

Can you post up some sample images from it please?

 

[Phate]

For research Flickr is also a great place to go for specific camera and lens combos. I'm sure you can find some underwater samples too.

I'll take a look, but generally I hate Flickr

 

[Phate]

SRS Microsystems. Have ordered from them before, they're legit. I'll take some photos of my fish tank later for a true underwater assessment

Seems legit

PS. E-PL5, E-M5, E-P5 and E-PM2 all use the same sensor and produce essentially identical images (only difference really being in the amount of image stabilisation available and different max shutter speeds, and even then the differences are small). So if you're looking for example images then results from any of those will be broadly relevant.

Thats very good to know

On thediveforum.co.uk I have found a guy who uses EVIL (I can't help but say that in a 'evil' way ) systems and happy to answer lots of questions. Time to pester!

 

[Phate]

More research done and been speaking to a guy who does this full time and he uses an E-PL5, can't recommend it enough!

He said the Sony is good, but it has a distinct lack of lenses. The Olympus really have this part of the market made with both Olympus and Panasonic lenses available + wet lenses to match, and good housings, accessories etc.

Exciting!


WHY DO I FIND THIS OUT THE DAY MY CREDIT CARD LIMIT GETS EXTENDED!!!

 

[Phate]

Purchased an E-PL5 last night off the Bay of E for £230. It's the black version, 6 months old, used a handful of times with the kit lens and case. Completely chuffed

Housing next month all in good time for my trip in July

I must say, I'm more excited about this purchase than pretty much any other (apart from the time I bought my Mkii and then the Mkiii even though its been the cheapest one I've made in photography for years!