Technology Degree Apprenticeships @ 25 Years Old

[Dellboy]

I wanted to get some opinions hopefully from people with experience of working either within technology companies, IBs or professional service companies on the best route for someone interested in working within technology (software development/cyber security). Most of the companies I've applied for offer degree apprenticeships in Digital and Technology Solutions. Unfortunately going back to university isn't an option, partly due to the ridiculous fees and also these courses offer between £18-23k per year initially which would allow me to live without building up more debt.

Some context may be useful - I didn't finish my degree in a subject unrelated to Computer Science/Technology due to a couple of deaths in the family. Since leaving university I've been working in recruitment for four years and have done reasonably well - billed well, promoted etc. However, I have no interest in staying in recruitment. I don't find it stimulating and feel as though I'm not gaining any skills and am regressing academically. Having had time to reflect on what I find interesting and am passionate about Technology is high on my list, after rugby.

I'm through the initial stages of JP Morgan, Santander, National Grid, KPMG and am waiting to hear back from a number of other companies.

As someone looking to start a career either within software development or cyber security where would I expect to receive the best training, the most interesting work and the best benefits (salary, working hours etc.) I appreciate that no single company will offer the best of all of these categories and I would probably prioritise them in the order above.

Happy to answer any questions or clarify anything if needs be.

 

[Dellboy]

Thanks both for the responses.

Malachi, I'll look into that. I'm fairly tight for time working 8-7pm currently but I'll try find some relevant resources even if I don't end up taking a formal exam.

Gambisk, thanks for all that info. My understanding of the apprenticeships is that as well as doing the degree I'll be getting relevant certifications along the way. That's certainly the case on the cyber security apprenticeships I've applied for. I can understand why a dedicated software company would want CS grads. Hopefully the degree, 4 years of experience in a reputable company and plenty of self development will stand me in good stead come the end of it. Most of these apprenticeships will guarantee a permanent job offer at the end of it and the ones that don't have good retention rates (80% according to the staff at companies I've interviewed for so far.) Would doing the degree apprenticeship at IBM be thought of well in the industry? (large software company, exposure to decent developers I'd imagine, finish with a degree)

 

[Dellboy]

Some are provided by BPP, Queen Mary's London, Exeter, Manchester Met. Those are the ones I can think of, there may be others but I'd say the majority are provided by BPP. The study/work balance is usually 2 days at university and 3 at the company. This may change to 1 and 4 after the first year. The lectures are mainly online with access to tutors and you're given support by your company also. Most of these programmes take 4 years to complete. These are the modules that BPP offer( in bold are the ones I'd probably chose now given the option);

Modules
Stage 1
Compulsory

• Business and Information Systems (15 credits)
• Professional Practice - Part 1 (15 credits)
• Introduction to Programming (15 credits)
• Maths for Computing (15 credits)
• IS Security Foundations (15 credits)
• Network Fundamentals (15 credits)
• Marketing Principles (15 credits)
• Project Management Fundamentals (15 credits)

Stage 2
Compulsory

• Database Management (15 credits)
• Systems Analysis and Design (15 credits)
• IS Security and Risk Management (15 credits)

Elective

• Professional Practice 2 (15 credits)
• Business Analysis Practice (15 credits)
• Service Management (15 credits)
• Financial Decision Making for IT (15 credits)
• Data Management and Analysis Practice (15 credits)
• Object Oriented Programming (15 credits)
• Computer Network Technologies (15 credits)
• Network Management and Operations (15 credits)
• Mobile Engineering (15 credits)

Stage 3
Compulsory

• Legal Aspects of Information Technology (15 credits)
• Agile Development (15 credits)
• Professional Project (30 credits)

Elective

• Consulting for Business (15 credits)
• Designing and Delivering IT Change (15 credits)
• Business and Big Data (15 credits)
• Data Analytics and Social Media Monitoring (15 credits)
• Cloud Computing (15 credits)
• Network Security Analysis (15 credits)
• Software Testing (15 credits)
• Web Application Development (15 credits)

This was also mentioned (unsure if these are actually prestigious or not):

During the second and third terms of the programme apprentices can also choose elective modules which will help to prepare them for prestigious professional qualifications including:

• Business Analysis Foundation Certificate (British Computer Society)
• ITIL foundation level qualification
• Cisco Certified Entry Networking Technician (CCENT)
• Cisco Certified Network Associate (CCNA )
• ISTQB® Foundation Level (CTFL)

 

[Dellboy]

Thanks for picking up on that amigafan, missed that when responding.

Most of the apprenticeships lead to a Bsc Digital and Technology Solutions.

 

[Dellboy]

That's reassuring to hear. I'd like to think I'm curious and competitive enough to go on and learn more than what's offered via the uni courses.

Gambisk what's your work/life balance like working for a software company? Should I expect a typical 9-5/6 or is it similar to recruitments 8-7?

 

[Dellboy]

I'm currently on track for a degree apprenticeship and it's a full BSc Hons degree. They're definitely the route to go these days.

How are you finding it delta? The only real negative I've seen online is that it can be challenging to balance work and uni loads but I'd imagine that's just a case of time management and being disciplined.

 

[Dellboy]

Most companies usually have a pretty good work life balance and 90% of the time everyone is home by 5/6 so long as all the work is going to plan. The overtime only comes when deadlines are approaching or if something goes horribly wrong in a production environment. I do 8:30 to 5 most days but only cause we are mandated to take a full hour for lunch otherwise i'd be away at 4:30 there are occasional days where we have to stay late to finish off a project but its no more that twice a year. My company is very engineer focused so they give the devs a lot of power and we have input into just about every step of the development process right up delivery. This is because everyone apart from the highest level of management is from an engineering background so understand that timelines can slip and therefore they don't foot the guys at the bottom with the overtime when something goes wrong. Some other companies I've worked in there is big disconnect between the management and engineering teams which is usually what leads to repetitive staying late or working weekends.

I think the UK in general, certainly N.Ireland, has a big developer shortage, so most companies really need to focus on Work life balance otherwise staff will just go somewhere that is doing it better.

That's good to know, talking to recruiters who cover IT they're always saying how candidate lead the market is. I've got no problem with working late but it's nice to not have to do it daily. I'd probably look to complete the degree, get a couple more years of experience and then if the balance wasn't working I'd move on to a smaller company.

 

[Dellboy]

Well Exeter and Queen Mary's are decent enough universities. Given what you've said re: not being able to go to uni full time this seems like a no brainer if this is what you want to study... you're starting from no degree and a job you want to leave and are looking at a degree from a good university + 4 years paid work experience at the likes of JPMC, IBM, Santander etc.. etc.. That then changes your circumstances significantly compared to where you are now.

The courses look quite applied, but I guess this isn't necessarily a bad thing if your aim is not to pursue a MSc or PhD after but to work in a corporate IT role for one of those firms, it looks like pretty relevant and useful topics for that.

Yeah that's the plan, I've had enough time to think about what interests me as previously I had no idea what I wanted a career in. Hopefully the course gives me a good base to push on from and in the future I could consider MSc once I'd been in the industry for a few years.

 

[Dellboy]

It really depends on the company and the industry.

When I was at JP Morgan I put in some stupid crunch time, 7 days a week in the office until past midnight. Generally the attitude there was "we're paying you a lot so you gotta work for it". If you want to climb the career ladder generally you'd have to put in more hours than the other guy.

I'm not in IB anymore

I've heard about the crazy hours the IB lot are expected to work. I've got family who work in city law firms and they put in silly hours, not as silly as banking though.

I'm happy to put a shift in but having some sort of balance is important to me.

What sort of interaction did you have with the tech teams (if any) and did they seem to enjoy working there?

 

[Dellboy]

That was on the tech side, I was a lead developer, then in an architect role.

After I did a stint as a dev lead at HSBC before I had my "**** this, I'm out" moment.

There's a lot to be said for getting debt free and a pile of money in the bank *before* going into game development. I don't regret working in IB tech, but it takes a special kind of psychopath to do it for a whole career imo

Oh bloody hell, that's pretty crazy. I'd look to stick at it for a few years after the four year programme and then see if I enjoy the work/if it's worth it. Game development sounds like fun but I imagine not as financially rewarding as the financial sector, could be wrong as I've worked in neither!

 

[Dellboy]

I done a degree (foundation) apprenticeship as my route into working life after I dropped out of 1st year uni. I followed it up straight away with the modules required to make it a full hons BSc which was worth the reasonable amount of effort I had to put in.

My path from then looks like this

3 Years Apprenticeship with BT (gaining FDSc)
2 Years Project Management Role (finishing off Full Hons BSc)
2 Years Service Management Role (no learning)
Took Voluntary Redundancy from BT
2 Years now with Microsoft as a Service Deliver Manager

I am now going through the process of deciding if doing a MSc is going to be of benefit to me and to the company with my manager in order to secure some funding from work.

Long story short, do I recommend degree apprenticeships? YES! A good friends of mine started at the same time as me at BT at age 25 (I was 19) and has stayed the course with BT and is in a "Head of" position at the moment. There are many similar stories to ours if you apply yourself and have a good head on your shoulders

That's exactly the sort of career path I'm looking to take. I'd like to think I've got a decent head, it's certainly better than it was before beginning work in recruitment. Glad to hear some real world examples that haven't come from a company trying to sell their apprenticeship!

Do you feel there's any disadvantages career/knowledge wise compared to graduates that have come via uni in your experience?

There are plenty of IT jobs in those banks that don't need to have anything to do with the investment banking side of things (it is just one of several business areas for a big bank and the one with the longest hours, at least for the investment bankers themselves - I didn't know their IT bods were working those hours too but I guess it makes sense), you certainly don't need to work 7 days a week in plenty of IT roles. IT roles directly interacting with front office trading desks could be stressful too (though they often only need to work 5 days a week), you might well end up involved in some drawn out project related to some recent regulatory change etc.. rather dull boring stuff IMO that could be done from 9-6-ish, Monday-Friday but become a specialist in this stuff and you can get some fairly hefty contractor rates, especially if you pull off shady moves like becoming the main domain expert then quitting in the middle of the project... unless they keep you on as a contractor for about a grand a day. My friend had to deal with this happening in his team recently, he's not a fan of the guy who did it but is going to be stuck with him for at least another year or so.

You'd have to have balls of steel to pull something like that Not sure if I'd fancy burning bridges at a company like that but who knows - £1k a day over the course of a year is a lot of cash... I can't imagine the roles I've applied for/will be applying for at places like Santander, Barclays and Lloyds will involve those kind of hours.