Terrorists or something else...

[Bar]

With today being the 7th of July the media has increased its reporting on terrorism in general. From the war on terror in Afghanistan and Iraq to domestic incidents and in one case a shooting.

It has however got me thinking about the term terrorism and more importantly is that the right word we should be using. The word terrorism is defined as:

“The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons”

That seems to give it certain legitimacy in some people’s eyes. It also could be applied to those considered as freedom fighters (see French/Dutch resistance during WWII). This spawned the saying

”One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter”

Surely then it would make more sense to deem them criminals and remove any patina of legitimacy. First and foremost these people are breaking the law. Thus they are criminals regardless of reason or intent they are criminals to be scorned and pitied.

Not only are they criminals they are also cowards as they refuse to identify themselves and stand up openly for what they believe in.

The question therefore is should they be referred to as Terrorists or Criminals and would it have any affect on the battle for hearts and minds which ultimately is the only way they will stop? Or would it be viewed as propaganda and thus have a negative affect at combating these people?


To the dons: I appreciate that this would normally sit in SC but due to the predictability of the responses I have posted it in GD to gain a broader understanding of peoples views and opinions.

 

[Bar]

But (in light of the oft quoted phrase that you've repeat c.f freedom fighters), does that not mean that we should classify groups such as the French resistance as criminals then?

That seems somewhat harsh, given that they were only doing what a lot of us would do if our country was invaded?

The French Freedom fighters were technically criminals who were reprieved of their crimes (where appropriate) after the war.

The area is grey, it has to be, I believe that branding them criminals means they are dealt with through an existing approved justice system and will hopefully reduce their appeal and legitimacy

Oh and would it be possible for one of the dons to prune the dross from this thread - cheers.

 

[Bar]

Islam in itself is not at fault.

The interpretation and application by a small number of power mad lunatics is where the fault is.

People turn to religion as they feel there is something missing in their lives. Nothing wrong with this at all. The greater the feeling the more prone they are to following an extremist way.

In order to deal with this issue we need to start dealing with the root causes not the symptoms.

1) One of the things I admire about Muslims and Islam is the sense of family and community. Everyone supports and helps each other (granted within their particular stream) This is a great thing but also brings with it greater responsibility. Muslims must look within their families and identify and report extremists within their midst. I have no doubt whatsoever that people are either living in denial or actively hiding extremists. If they are not willing to report them I do believe that they place their faith and morals above the laws and principals of this country (UK). If that is the case they have no place within our shores and should be made to leave. This also applies to non Muslims who hide criminals.
2) Education and reduction in poverty will go along way to helping out the current situation which is where I believe the term terrorist should be replaced with criminal. Do not give anyone the chance to view a terrorist as a good thing. They are criminals and they are cowards and should be named as such.

 

[Bar]

Will reply fully in a minute as I am eating lunch but I would like to point out that I do not view people who are religious as weak minded.

Will clarify with an edit - think you have picked up wrongly from what I was saying.

 

[Bar]

I agree with you that religion is for the weak and the weaker you are the more deeply religion can infest your mind though.

what I posted was

People turn to religion as they feel there is something missing in their lives. Nothing wrong with this at all. The greater the feeling the more prone they are to following an extremist way.

I can see how it has been misunderstood as it lends itself to what you thought I meant.

Faith fills a gap. That gap is not as a result of being weak minded, it just simply exists in most people. I have never found anyone completely and totally content in believeing in themself.

The danger is when they have nothing to believe in at all. The gap is no longer a gap but a gaping hole that leads to desperation. This is were extremists get their opportunity to corrupt.

10-13% of muslims believe martyrdom is ok. Sadly I can believe that and I would refer back to my point 1) in that post where I state these people should be removed from this country as it is in direct conflict to our collective beliefs (religious or otherwise).

People died as some power crazy lunatics decided to brain wash vulnerable muslims who were sent to a place they should never have been sent. This does not remove the blame from them - they are still responsible for what they did. But merely highlights the fact that their parents and the lunatics are equally responsible.

It is at this point that I am in conflict with myself. The environment should not exist such that people feel the need to send their children away for moral guidance to protect them from the wrongs of society. That applies across the board. But when those wrongs are perceived to be wrong by a "foreign" religion and culture then those people should not have chosen to come here in the first place.

 

[Bar]

VIRII - see post above.

Just to point out I believe in God as I feel that he fills a gap within me. I would not count myself as weak minded.

I still know the difference between right and wrong but I still have a base desire for faith.

 

[Bar]

It is when religion comes into it with its dogma and BS that the problems start.

Agree completely. As I said it should be viewed as guidelines nothing more - God blessed us with common sense (well most of us anyway) - not as a prescribed set of rules that must be followed to the nth degree.

Was the intention of Mohammed that what was written in his name to be followed to the letter or was he trying to provide guidelines for people to become better.

Religion is harmless - its only when people get involved that it becomes a dangerous weapon. Just like a gun.

 

[Bar]

a atlas

Just to say it before VIRII does and thus deny him the pleasure.

It's an atlas.

 

[Bar]

One thing that should be remembered is we are judging all of this with your morals and values.

In places like Iraq, Syria, Palestine they may very well view those terrorists as freedom fighters.