TF2 - Scores represent time rather than skill...

[NeilF]

So going onto a server with someone at 140 points this simply shows that someone has been on the level for a long time!!

Why aren't the points shown PER game (as well)???

 

[NeilF]

They are, just at the end of the round instead.

Why not during where you spend 99.9% of the game?

 

[NeilF]

because people like a running total, not quite sure why it bothers you though.

Because the scores are practically meaningless...

You have no idea if someone with 50 points is fabulous as they only joined this round, or are utter crud cos they've been playing for the entire 4 rounds...

Why not simply show the score this round as well eg: 141 (22) rather than just 141?

Simple and means you can see who is scoring highly at the moment...

 

[NeilF]

Scores are sensible to me. Most people will be on the server for multiple games, where a game lasts the whole time the map is loaded, not just a round. Statistically you'll get more reliable results this way when it comes to determining who is best (at scoring - there are some places where the scoring seems slightly too generous / stingey), provided you only look at the people who have been playing the whole game. You get the top performers at the end of the round as well for the winning team

Understand and agree, but can see no reason to omit the round's score. Also would be nice (like TFC) to see play time as well I think...

 

[NeilF]

you can see playtime just look in server info and you will know whos good

And I see that by press TAB and?????

Again, the scores are all lost in 'time'... Just have score per round and a grand total if so be... But as it is, they're a little mushy/worthless due to the 'time factor'...

 

[NeilF]

Personally, I'd like to see them do away with the current scoring system as it doesn't reward selfless play!
For example, someone playing as a Pyro that enters a capture area knowing they'll defo die just for the fact that they'll set light to 5 or 6 enemy and cause chaos - they could possibly score nil points as no kills, but because of them the capture could be made and the whole team benefits! It's often the selfless acts that give the best team results.
Conversely, you could get someone playing as Heavy camping at the spawn with a medic on his ass - he manages to kill shedloads of enemy and score loads of points, but doesn't advances the team what-so-ever!

I had a classic today... On 2fort, got the intel, managed to fight it all the way back to our base without diing... Got to our top floor and thought - somewhat chuffed at this - 'I'll just top up on health'.... As I went thru the door, the intel dropped and bang, someone else picked it up and merrily went and capped it...

 

[NeilF]

If you're bothered, view server info and it will say how many kills in how much time.

But you shouldn't have to dig around for something so simple... Why not just show:-

Lives, Score, Total, Time on the TAB screen.

ie: Lives lost on this round, Score for this round, Total score (as currently shown), Time on server...

Seems simple and would give a nice clear indication of true greatness

 

[NeilF]

I agree the best team player isn't always the guy with the best score. I have played on teams where people hang back picking shots, using team-mates as shields or watching team-mates struggle on their own and don't press or take risks, just so they can try and get a good personal score. It can be very irritating if you are losing because of them and all the time they think they are doing great and it is quite common if you just jump onto a server as I do.

I have also made suicide runs so my team can advance past a defended point or make a capture. I find it particularly amusing when on rare occasions someone has made some remark about me dying, or running into certain death, then see my team take the capture point or kill the person and his team-mates just moments later because they were too busy dealing with me. A kill/death ratio isn't always that useful an indicator.

The only score I really notice is the MVP scores at the end of a round and my own. The main scoring system is just there I rarely notice it but I don't mind it either, I don't think I'd pay much attention to it. I find it much easier to tell in game who is doing well and causing problems and what they are doing.

Well, last night I was quite chuffed that I managed to last quite a long time and kill around ten enemy without losing a life... How is this reflected in the scores? Not at all... The suicide pyro does just as well score wise, the guy who's been on for 2-3 rounds more than me has a higher score etc etc...

Just show a set of different stats/scores (lives, score this round, total score, time on server) so you can see who is a suicide monkey, who is doing really well this round, and who is doing well this map etc etc.

I see that sort of information far more important than knowing what my record is for the most times I've had a teleporter used, and that I was an engineer at the time?


As for endorsing team play, that's another matter. It's odd, some of the gameplay really helps, medics and eng especially. But what's very odd is the communication I've seen so far for TF2 is terrible (say compared to TFC). It's VERY rare to see anyone mention the location of intel they've dropped, or where an enemy SG is so their team mates don't run head on into it... For such a team minded game, it's odd how unteamy the communication seems to be from the people playing it? (From what I've witnessed)

 

[NeilF]

play for fun why do scores even matter? epenis?

Ahh... Maybe TF2 should be converted so all classes run around with feather dusters and just tickle each other?

No levels or rounds, no winners or losers, no points, just feather dusters... Just bucket loads of fun... Sounds fabbo

 

[NeilF]

You're playing on the wrong servers then. Admittedly, I play on a select few, but the teamwork is always good.

As for scores, I don't really care about them, the MVP at the end of around is useful, but again the problem there is it doesn't show good play from the losing team.

When you find some good team players it is good. I once came across a medic (no, not like in that film!!!) and he really understood how to use the uber charge properly... Too often you see medics just wasting them, rather than making a big difference with them...

Returning to scores again... I don't see why they go to lengths of all the superficial stuff like 'Dominated' and 'Revenge' which are almost random, and not just show the values I've suggested on TAB?

 

[NeilF]

heh yeah it depends what server your playing on as to if people will actually play as a team... one time i played where pretty much everyone on the team was talking over coms which was awesome.. but again quite often nobody says anything, doesn't play as a team and goes around randomly.... clans matches are the way forward public servers are for killing n00bs

ps. 30 kills as a pyro huh thats impressive... im more the run in maybe get 2 kills and go down in a blaze of glory pyro player

With the various servers I've seen so far for TF2, the level of communication is terrible. It's rare to see anyone helping team mates with some simple text/dialog. Very odd, as with TFC it's almost the opposite...

 

[NeilF]

No, it's only global if set to be so in the server cvars. For some reason, quite a lot of publics do this - maybe its the default setting and turning on team talk only needs to be set up.

Bizarre!

I've also encountered llamas just playing annoying $~£# over their audio. You then go and mute them, and strangely within about 5 minutes they're re-enabled and you're get the annoying $~£# out of your speakers again....

ALSO, why isn't the mute option as easy as in TFC? Hold TAB, move your cursor over the speaker symbol on the score sheet and click... Done!

 

[NeilF]

I thought i told you guys TF2 was pretty much a skilless game as soon as it came out,

I haven't played it in about 3 weeks :/ Just no interest whatsoever.


Saying that, I haven't plyaed FF either... but that's simply because nobody plays its

I've come around to it... I would say there's less individual skill involved than TFC though...

I have four main issues at the moment:-
1) Let's see more stats on that (TAB) score sheet. As this thread suggests!
2) Scouts need balancing IMHO. You tend to see flocks of scouts doing too much damage. Reduce their gun power a bit, or their health a bit.
3) Spies are just a pain. All it means is everyone is shooting the hell out of all their team mates for spy checking etc etc.
4) Get rid of the trains on 2Fort... Silly!

 

[NeilF]

2) If you reduced scouts health any more they would be useless.. scouts are fine imo
3) What are you suggesting? get rid of spies? heh
4) There aren't any trains on 2fort

Ooop meant Well!

 

[NeilF]

Gotta say Pyro now rocks. So much fun now the class can actually do real damage.

Engineer is still my fave by far, me and afew friends use TS and all build sentrys in an area with mounted dispensers..totally hilarious when a spy comes along etc, all good fun.

Have you worked out how in 'well' you can build a teleporter exit (& your other stuff) up in the highest areas of the final capture point (ie: where the rocket is)... If 2-3 engineers combine togethor to do this it's pretty impressive, and everything is spy proof except the teleporter entrance

 

[NeilF]

If i'm playing well i can tell without having a scoreboard to reference.

But I'm shallow and competitive... I want my name at the top of the score board and people kneeling at their PCs bowing their heads at the true greatness of the numbers displayed next to my name... Ooops! Went off on one there!

In TFC I enjoy seeing a nice big score next to my name (for each ROUND) and a nice low number of lives next to it...

The current value(s) shown represent little really unless everyone has been there for the entire level/map!

 

[NeilF]

The fact is, I want the best players to GENERALLY (not always) have the higher scores

Obviously in clan games scores mean very little (besides if you're a defender... in TFC anyway)

Where TF2 at the moment will taint scores to a certain degree with who has been on the level/map the longest... So if you join in time for the last two rounds say of four, your score means very little for all the time you're playing...