Poll: The BIG Rover debate

[agw_01]

I've just heard from a little birdie that Fox has been slating Rovers... saying that headgaskets go on the 214 constantly... and that my car might well have cost £500, but look how much I've spent on it.

I for one, am absolutely fed up of people slating Rovers when they don't know the facts... so come on Fox

How come I've done just under 22,000 miles overall and not suffered a HG failure? How come I know a LOT of people who've owned 214's from new and NEVER had a HG failure?

You say I've spent an awful lot on my car... let's see... belt change/waterpump/spark plugs/HT leads/oil changes/coolant flush... they're things I wanted to do to the car. They require changing anyway so it's not like I wasted money on having them done.

Ok, so the gearbox went and cost me £180 but so what? I broke it. If I hadn't been so hard on it, then it wouldn't have died.

Simple as that.

So come on, let's hear it... I want to hear how much you guys can slate Rovers.

 

[agw_01]

Damn right Fox

I can't be bothered installing IRC. Too much hassle.

 

[agw_01]

Jokester, their products weren't poor. It was the image associated with Rover... old men with their checkered jackets and flat caps.

I can think of a lot worse cars that are still in production.

P.S. Fox, good guess

 

[agw_01]

Ok, that's what we want... more opinions from people who've owned them

Any chance this thread could be turned into a poll, as I know there's a lot of members out there and want to see what they think.

Basically just a "rover were good/bad" poll. Maybe an option, "I'd consider one for my grandad" as well.

 

[agw_01]

Dolph, care to explain what you mean? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

 

[agw_01]

For the time, the 200 Mk2 was IMO a great car. Definitely one of the best in its class. If you put the logo aside, almost all of the 200 range were better spec'd than most of its competitors.

Ok, so you say it's based on a Honda Concerto... what do you see more of on the roads, Honda Concerto's or Rover 200's?

I'd also disagree about the 25 being 'utter dross' (love the words you use). Again, it's a popular car and it's no doubt screwed together better than the Mk2 200.

 

[agw_01]

Thanks for the poll Dolph Oh look, I wonder who that kind person was who voted them as being good.

Hmm, could you comment on both the cars and the company?

 

[agw_01]

Why?

You can't make points like that and then not give a reason

 

[agw_01]

I'm not liking all the comments about brake failure.

What caused them to fail atpbx?

 

[agw_01]

DaveyD, that's a good point about the engine in the ZR. You do have to remember it's a 1.4, and for it's engine size it does perform rather well. You need to keep it in the 'power' band to get good performance out of it, but I've got no doubt in it keeping pace with quite a few 1.6 and 1.8's on flat roads.

You have a rover, clearly you are going to try and justify the money you have poured into it.

That is all well and good but the problem is pretty obvious: you have a rover

Thanks for your input DRZ I know it's only a Rover, but that's the problem... it's not only a Rover, it's MY Rover. You could say that about any car... it's only a Mondeo, or it's only an Astra... or for the more exotic people in our audience, it's only a BMW X5

I think that's a lot of the problem. People were put off with the HG problems. Truth is it wasn't that big a problem. I'm not going to deny that the HG's failed, because I know full well that there was a problem, but people put so much emphasis on it that it really ruined the reputation of the K-series, which is a very good engine.

As for them being unreliable, you'll get a bad batch with any manufacturer. I know a lot of people who've had very little problems with their Rovers. Including my dad, who owns a 1997 820 which is nearing 300,000 miles

 

[agw_01]

make a better car than one Rover introduced in 1995

Really Fox, forget when a car was 'first' introduced. They used the 200 as the base model for the ZR and 25 because it was popular and sold well.

Age isn't everything you know.

Del Lardo backed my point up in the above post. If the K-series was such a crap and unreliable engine, then why do a lot of people use it in the cars named above?

And extracting a stable 200bhp from a 1.6 or 1.8 engine... that shows some good mechanical work.

 

[agw_01]

No, they used the 200 as a base model for the ZR and 25 becuase they were too strapped for cash to do anything else and couldn't afford to develop the all new car they badly needed.

Do you have anything to back that up with? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just interested to know why you think that.

Also, you didn't answer my question on the first page.

 

[agw_01]

It's widely known that the reason Rover continued rehashing old products was becuase they had no choice, I cannot find any specific online sources but even die hard Rover fans don't normally try and pretend the reason they kept using old designs were becuase they were fantastic.

Whats your question by the way? I'm ignoring everything in your opening post becuase I think the idea of a dragging something from IRC onto the forums to have a moan about is petty

The Mk3 200 was probably just as good a seller as the Mk2. The ZR wasn't just a run of the mill 200/25 though.

Ok, so Rover might have not have had any chance of releasing new models (the Streetwise was evidence of this) but the MG range weren't just crummy old Rovers. They were totally restyled... if you put a 200 and ZR next to each other, they'd look completely different... and they'd drive completely differently as well.

Take a look at posts 16 and 17. That's my question. I think you'll find I mentioned IRC for about one sentence

 

[agw_01]

Only becuase a handful of people bought them regardless of how poor they were simply becuase 'Aye lad, best buy british' or some other inane reason, or becuase in the latter stages of Rovers existence they tried to give them away by selling them at stupid prices, offering free leather, etc.

Are we talking about the Mk3 here? I see more Mk3's on the road than I do Mk2's... I'd hardly call that just a 'handful' of people. Oh, and leather is very rare in the Mk3's. Which takes me back to my other point. I'd like to see another car which fell into the same category as the 200 which had a similar spec.

No, it was a run of the mill 200 that was driven into a local branch of Halfords and emerged with most of the ripspeed section fixed to it

Ok, so I didn't think about that one, I'll let you off.

Totally restyled? Oh come off it - it was a 25 with a bodykit - it was no more 'totally restyled' than a Mondeo with RSAP is totally restyled - it was simply a bodykit nothing more, nothing less, and some lowered suspension. They never released anything new - just more and more rehashes of an old, tired product. I mean what on EARTH was the Streetwise about? What a pointless car.

Even their one 'new' car, the CityRover, was a rebadged Tata Indica.

I agree with the CityRover being called the ******Rover for a reason. I have no idea what they were thinking when they released that, but it wasn't a Rover. Truthfully, I liked the way rover re-used the 25/45/75 to make the MG range. The CityRover was just sat in a corner on its own.

Oh, the bigger engined MG's had lowered and stiffened suspension. I think that, and the engines in the ZR160, ZS180 and ZT190/260 gave them the right to be sporty cars.

Why was it years behind the others? Well thats blatantly obvious really, isn't it? The 200 was released in 1995 and heavily based on the previous model which traces its routes to the 1980's.

The new Clio was a completely new car in 1998, the new Fiesta a completely new car in 2002, the Yaris a completely new car in 1999, etc.

I'll let you off again with that one. I'd only just realised that they used the Mk2 chassis for the Mk3. But just look what it's like with decent suspension.

 

[agw_01]

Heh, but not for the money they're asking for them now.

£6k for a ZT 190

 

[agw_01]

moss, that's not suprising given that the gaskets you sell are for use on wet-liner (after 1996) engines. The dry-liner (pre 96) blocks were much much less prone to HG failure.

I've seen MANY people state different things about what causes the failures, but it would be really good to be able to put it down a one thing and resolve it. Quite a few people think it the positioning of the thermostat.

Malt_Vinegar, he's not running increased boost is he, or constantly floors it in 1st? It's very unlikely for the PG1 box to go just like that.

iv-tecman, a superb post there, with a lot of discriptive information. Thanks for that I'll reply to specific parts tomorrow as I'm pretty tired at the moment (read. been drinking )

I'd just like to thank everyone for contributing to this thread. Some very good points have been made.

 

[agw_01]

I know of a few Rovers, a couple of them are "J" registration like my 3 is without exception, not one looks a patch on mine.

My dad's J-reg Mk1 820 has been sat on the driveway for the past 4 years. The cambelt snapped and he hasn't got it back on the road since. It's still rust free, and after a wash looks like new. We will get it back on the road one day!

compare a Mondeo to a Rover 400!

The Rover 400 is basically a Honda Civic. Compare the 420 GSi to the Mondeo Ghia X. Very similar spec, and I doubt the build quality on the Rover/Honda is bad at all.

Also, compare a Rover 200 Mk2 to an Astra. (1993/94)

 

[agw_01]

It takes a strong man to weather such sustained ego bashing. Perhaps AGW is the one.

TBH Trickle, the badge doesn't bother me. I love the car and my dad has had no trouble with any of his Rovers. I'm glad I went for the Rover as a first car, it's good to be different.

I'll agree when people say that Rover weren't putting out new ideas in their final few years. That's what brought them to the ground, but when they were still in the mainstream market they were producing some cars well ahead of their time.

Anyone who says the K-series is crap probably hasn't ever owned a Rover. The K was well ahead of its time!

He does run completely uprated turbo, and its very rapid WHEN its working...

Could you find out what boost and turbo he's running? It'd be interesting to know.