The Grand Tour

Soldato
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I'd love to see a quote from anywhere that confirms what you say, because everything I have read and heard from people who were there, has said nothing abut the batteries catching fire at all.

As I said a couple of the oil lines that go to the motors in the wheels ruptured when he crashed and rolled, spraying oil over the hot motors which set the oil alight, and the burning oil set the car alight.

Hammond got out of the car under his own power a good few minutes before the car burst into flames actually, and as you can see from all the photos online the fire was out within moments of the fire crews arriving on the scene.

Also I can tell you without any worry of correction LI-Ion batteries do not burn for days on end, they burn for a very short time as there is not that much flammable material in one.

I know this as it is my job to set fire to Li-Ion battery modules and packs for various EV manufacturers, and to deliberately impact and impale battery modules and packs to see what happens, and to check all the safeguards work as designed.

And finally yet again I point you to the post crash photos all over the internet, of the burnt out car upside down, the battery pack is very clearly visible and very clearly completely intact, and not burnt out and not exploded, so again where is the evidence that the battery pack caught fire at all ?

Well they did mention it on the show...
 
Soldato
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8 year warranty is somewhat irrelevant when they don't appear to take into account reductions in range (ie, battery efficiency).

I know people who bought Teslas only to be unable to use them 2-3 years later because the usable range no longer covered their commute.

The first option that may actually compensate for this is the new roadster with it's 1000km range... now we're starting to get into the realms where the standard charge range and range after efficiency loss might be usable on a daily basis.

Ok... and what did Tesla say? Cos that’s the context missing from your post.

Leaf doesn’t have degradation that aggressive. TThat said they don’t have superchargers and ludicrous mode. They covered that on the show too.

My sympathies are with people who have that sort of commute regardless.
 

mrk

mrk

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What was the point of Paris Hilton being in this episode? All she went on about was how her grandad had Rolls Royce golf carts and other non important stuff with the odd token "oh that's so cool" remark at things said by others.

Annoying!

As for the electric debate, range degrade is an issue, but aren't solid state batteries supposed to solve this? Fisker cars use those don't they? And they are equally as expensive as a loaded up Model X!
 
Soldato
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Derp... the problem is when Tesla quote a 300km range... someone has a 250km daily commute and then 1-2 years later the car only has 200km range thanks to battery degradation.

The 1000km range of the new car that's not available for another 3 years finally means you shouldn't have to worry about it.

What you quote as the losses are incorrect... I know at least two people who invested in Teslas and in about 1 year were no longer able to complete their daily commute.

The tech isn't good enough yet... the new roadster's ranges means it looks like it will finally be viable for your average motorist by 2025.

Until then... they're only for posers who want to pretend their environmentally friendly.

At least those posers are paying the way for every day users to be able to afford the same tech.

A 250km commute is quite along way, that's 156 miles each way, so 3 hours? By the time you get to your destination surely its time to go home, or did you mean they couldn't recharge at work and its 156 total not each way?
 

Jez

Jez

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When you say a 250km daily commute, i would think it fair to say that they mean round trip. Most people will not be able to charge at work.
 
Caporegime
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Even a 156 mile (250km) round trip is nearly 80 miles one way, so that's getting on for 2 to 2.5 hours driving, so 4 to 5 hours driving per day.

Reckon I'd get a different job, let alone car.
 

Jez

Jez

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Surely that's quite an abnormal commute? Less than 0.0001% of commuters doing that sort of drive? I don't know, I'm actually asking...

I really dont know, i personally commute for 135 miles per day from rural Oxfordshire to London which is 220km. Couldn't charge at the office. Most of my colleagues here have similar commuting distances whether that be by train or car, we are in London and one comes from the south coast (Solent), one from Peterborough, one from Reading, one from St Neots. A few of my neighbours in Oxon also commute to London.

Doesnt seem too abnormal, i cant believe that it could possibly be as low as 0.0001% :p
 
Man of Honour
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90,805
Even a 156 mile (250km) round trip is nearly 80 miles one way, so that's getting on for 2 to 2.5 hours driving, so 4 to 5 hours driving per day.

Reckon I'd get a different job, let alone car.

Same but while not common it isn't unusual - I know someone who does a 90 mile (180 round trip) commute from near me to Reading 3 days a week and works from home the other two - they are getting a bit fed up with it and looking to move that way but have a lot of family down here.

EDIT: They are also doing 10-12 hour shifts with like 3 hours driving either end of it - screw that for a laugh.
 

Jez

Jez

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I know commutes as long as that take place, but thought almost all took the train? Are you saying all those colleagues drive?
Most drive, we have a big carpark and good road links here. Driving is also a lot lot cheaper. My monthly fuel burn even in a 300bhp car is only around £350. My main reason though is that i do not have a convenient station where i live (nearest is a ~25min drive away anyway).
 
Soldato
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Kent
Derp... the problem is when Tesla quote a 300km range... someone has a 250km daily commute and then 1-2 years later the car only has 200km range thanks to battery degradation.

The 1000km range of the new car that's not available for another 3 years finally means you shouldn't have to worry about it.

What you quote as the losses are incorrect... I know at least two people who invested in Teslas and in about 1 year were no longer able to complete their daily commute.

The tech isn't good enough yet... the new roadster's ranges means it looks like it will finally be viable for your average motorist by 2025.

Until then... they're only for posers who want to pretend their environmentally friendly.

At least those posers are paying the way for every day users to be able to afford the same tech.

Given that the "average motorist" in England is commuting 10 miles each way (1), the technology is more than good enough today. A quick Google suggests a Nissan Leaf has a quoted range of about 230 miles on battery. Even accounting for your claim of about 20% range degradation after two years, it would take 10 years for the battery to degrade to a point where it became unusable for such a daily commute. I drive 50 miles a day, and that's one of the longer drives in my office...an electric car would be more than suitable for my daily commute.

Electric cars aren't ideal for people driving 150 miles a day, every day, but that was never a surprise. You knowing two owners who do, who still thought it was a good idea to buy Teslas, does not make it representative of the majority.

Source: (1) https://www.racfoundation.org/asset...loadables/car-and-the-commute-web-version.pdf (p11)

As for your little snipe at electric car owners, as someone who recently posted a "spec me" thread who's sole aim seemed to be to say "look at the size of my budget", I think you're on shaky ground calling them out for being posers ;)
 
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Soldato
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Barnet, London
Most drive, we have a big carpark and good road links here. Driving is also a lot lot cheaper. My monthly fuel burn even in a 300bhp car is only around £350. My main reason though is that i do not have a convenient station where i live (nearest is a ~25min drive away anyway).

Interesting. I still suspect it's a fraction of a percentage of car owners that do this. (Were we looking at percentage of commuters before? I'm switching to car owners/prospective car buyers, as surely that's what matters :) )
 

Jez

Jez

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Interesting. I still suspect it's a fraction of a percentage of car owners that do this. (Were we looking at percentage of commuters before? I'm switching to car owners/prospective car buyers, as surely that's what matters :) )
Yeah, it wont be common the scheme of the average worker, but remember that average worker stats are always skewed (as per very low average salaries quoted for the UK as a whole which do not reflect middle class workers) with "local" workers in low paid jobs making up retail and restaurant/local business staff etc. I'd say that 100+ mile daily commutes are not too uncommon if you were to narrow the criteria down to management only (upper) middle workers, which to be honest are the type of people who would mainly be in the market for cars like the Tesla Model S :)
 
Associate
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8 Nov 2006
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What was the point of Paris Hilton being in this episode? All she went on about was how her grandad had Rolls Royce golf carts and other non important stuff with the odd token "oh that's so cool" remark at things said by others.

Annoying!

She has a huge rack and nearly crashed the jag...... could be worse.
 
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