The honest Hifi DAC debate

nightrider1470

nightrider1470

nightrider1470

Soldato
Joined
25 May 2011
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3,299
New to hifi and I'm running seperates.

From your honest view, regards! DAC's!.... Can a £2000 DAC really do more than a £100 one that does it great...

Doesn't a DAC just convert the signal either good or bad and has know effect on the actual sound.

Are DAC's like the early days of HDMI cables

?????

I bought a £85 DAC and sounds great! But can't help but wonder, with £2000 Tannoy 6.4 speakers, if they could sound better

Love to all

Jamie
 
What DAC are you thinking of for 2k? I had a Benchmark DAC, was not that impressed. Now I have an RME Babyface Pro (connected to Adam s3x-v monitors). I would suggest looking more into studio quality DAC rather than consumer which are generally overpriced.
 
As long as your overall system is good it can make a massive difference. But it doesn't necessarily scale with cost. Some of the custom raspberry Pi stuff is exceptional for the money and if you're willing to put the effort in can mean you get sound equivalent to something like a 500 quid MDAC for less than 50 quid.
 
law of diminishing returns.

in the headphone world, i've tested DAC/AMP's ranging from £15 to £600/£800.

the sweet spot IMO was around £150-£250. after that yes they were better but not extremely noticeable and it really depended on the quality of everything else in the chain. i don' think it was worth paying the extra for though unless you have money to burn.

i'd just go with a reputable company and go for something low - mid range.

in the headphone world a schiit stack for <£300 will see you right.
 
I bought a £85 DAC and sounds great! But can't help but wonder, with £2000 Tannoy 6.4 speakers, if they could sound better

Or could the dac sound better with better speakers?
As sonny says there's many links in the chain. If the source has been badly mixed and you set your system up to sound great with that track, better mixed tracks may sound rubbish.

If it sounds great at the moment changing things may make it worse.
 
I have a Naim DAC-V1 and a Meridian Explorer 2, so devices at both ends of the scale. The Naim provides a more detailed sound to my ears and of course is much more versatile but as with virtually all hifi it is a law of diminishing returns.
 
IMO, yes, assuming you have good gear downstream.
I was at Scalford this year. Listened to a lot of gear and was surprised at how few systems really grabbed me. I found it interesting that all of the digital fronted ones that stood out were using some pretty serious digital sources.

For ref, my digital "source" cost more than £2k, but was only bought after dems and it has been compared to number of other digital sources. I can happily assure you that I'd save my money and blow it on a decent holiday if I thought that a £100 DAC was comparable. Infact, I do have a £130 Meridian explorer 2 powering my headphones from my PC. It's not in the same league as my main source.
 
I have a NAD M51 which by most accounts would be seen as a fairly expensive DAC, however the only reasons I got it were
a) balanced XLR outputs for my active speakers
b) the way the digital volume control works is non-destructive unless you're cutting serious decibels
c) it has a remote so you can adjust the volume from the seating positioning

Ideally I'd like to move to something more 21st century eventually where the DAC (and DSP for room positioning) is built into the speakers as well and it can be controlled from a smartphone, like the Devialet Phantoms, Kii Threes, Kef LS50W's etc... I don't think the NAD sounds noticeably better than the DAC I had before it, it's just there wasn't anything else like it available at the time it was released.
 
OP>Some times it does, sometimes it doesn't. Allow me to elaborate. There is a British company called DCS and they make audio products. In my opinion they are in the top 3 of the setups I have owned ( I am a former owner) with the Emm Labs and Burmester being the other two. I own a Burmester as well and a Mark Levinson Cd transport/Dac setup as well.

What makes DCS so highly regarded is I would say they have the sound which is closest to neutrality more than other manufacturers. The problem is I found it ever so dull. The highs were not too high and not too rolled off. The mids not to forward, not too recessed and the bass not too much and not too less. Technically it plays music at the highest level with few companies can match. But the way it presented the sound presentation I found it so dull I hated it but I can certainly appreciate it ability to present music with as little colouration as possible.

On the other end of the price spectrum I bought a Nad d7050 as I wanted a compact amp which can handle streaming and spotify and what not. I hated it compared to my Marantz 6005. SUre it was more versatile and had a lovely form factor but I hated the sound. Sure it errs ever so slightly on the warmer side of things but nowhere like a Marantz does. THe Nad cost me 800 or therabouts the Marantz only cost me 200. So I don't think necessarily spending more always benefits your setup. So many factors come into play. It the sum of the parts that come into play so if one component doesn't get on with all the others whether it be amps, speaker cables, interconnects, room etc no matter what it cost whether it be 100 pounds or 10k.
 
Is the question regarding the same chipset in a differently priced product?

OP needs to go out and try some different products - I suspect there will be a fairly decent difference between a £85 and £2000 DAC with the right accompanying components. Whether this is worth the extra outlay is something only the individual can decide (diminishing returns etc).
 
the problem with sound compared to video is. with video you can measure it as reference perfectly. you have an image you know is perfect as it's been manufactured on a PC using specific RGB numbers. you then send it digitally to a tv then it displays the output. you can then tweak the colours to get it close to as it should be when it was created on a pc.

with sound though it's extremely subjective. some people don't want to have ear fatigue from loud shrilling treble, etc. humans naturally prefer a warmer sound. this is why the HD650 is more liked than the reference HD600. it's slightly warmer.

so someone could say i think these speakers, this source and this dac/amp is the best combo and to you it sounds nothing special.
 
You could spend more money on a DAC, but probably better treating the room first. I have HD600 with Sonarworks headphone calibration which provides flat frequency response (simulating a perfectly treated room). You can use Sonarworks in conjunction with Waves NX to simulate 3D room acoustics. If you listen to music via this and compare to your speaker setup, it will demonstrate quite clearly any room issues which you will have.
 
Yes it can, I wondered the same. I had recently upgraded my DAC to one that was highly regarded at around £750 to the Matrix X Sabre Pro at not far off double the price (no holiday for me this year). I also use the brilliant Adam S3X-Vs so improvements would be / are very discernable. I would agree about looking into studio stuff rather than over hyped consumer hif-fi. Though the Matrix DAC is Chinese designed and made it is a very high sounding / quality piece of equipment...the chassis is milled out of a single block of alloy!!.
 
lesoudeur said:
Yes it can, I wondered the same. I had recently upgraded my DAC to one that was highly regarded at around £750 to the Matrix X Sabre Pro at not far off double the price (no holiday for me this year). I also use the brilliant Adam S3X-Vs so improvements would be / are very discernable. I would agree about looking into studio stuff rather than over hyped consumer hif-fi. Though the Matrix DAC is Chinese designed and made it is a very high sounding / quality piece of equipment...the chassis is milled out of a single block of alloy!!.
Click to expand...

The S3X-V really are amazing, razor sharp detail, great for fine tuning mixes and just listening to music, provided it is well produced. Otherwise shows up all the defects. I also have Celestion A3 for pure musical enjoyment.

I notice you have Adam Sub, do you use that with the S3X-V, because they go down so low anyway? Also may I ask what stands you have them on? I have mine on K&M 26740, but may switch to desk mount stands in future.
 
The Sub 7 is a carry over from when I had the S2Xs. It helps a little with really deep base but it is very subjective as you know and the room characteristics play a bigger part in this. I read of one reviewer that said that the addition of a Sub 12 really changed/improved things in all respects but that was for a mid field placement and my room would not accomodate one anyway. The stands are excellent and can recommend them; Isoacoustics ISO-L8R200Sub and a pair of L8R200. Have added some sorbothane "feet" to experiment with positioning of the speakers and further accoustic isolation. Celestion A3s are highly thought of, wish I had a music listening room to experiment with but I have to compromise with what I have at the moment (which for my wallet may be no bad thing).
 
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