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[father-ted]

Lingard is one of those players I would love to smash in the face, he is one annoying little toad that thinks more of his JLingz brand than the football he plays....what is he now, around 27....and still behaving like he is 17 (rolls eyes)

 

[Shamikebab]

That says more about you really than him.

 

[father-ted]

I have been a home and away match going Red for over 35 years....he has driven me to it!

 

[adam cool dude]

Finding Keano
Given the recent performances and the clamour for a CDM during the transfer window. It got me thinking that really United haven't really had a world class midfielder since Roy Keane who played his last match 16 years ago. I loved Keane. He was the epitome of that great side and arguably the heartbeat of the team. Since then we've tried dozens of combinations with mixed success and muddled through. People rave about Carrick but I never warmed to him completely. He never quite had it in the real top matches and I believe he was fundamental to the the loss vs Barcelona in the 2011 CL Final. HAving said that there isn't really anyone that has rivalled him since then. We've tried so many players in that role without seeming to hit on the right formula.

Think of the players we've tried
Anderson, Fletcher, O'Shea, Giggs, Kleberson, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Matic, Fred, Fellaini, Hargreaves, Herrera, Pogba, Nick Powell, Liam Miller, van der Beek, McTominay.

Why is it so hard to find a player to play that DCM role?
Last season we saw predominance of McFred since the humbling defeat to Tottenham but whilst it brought some solidity and positional discipline its just not progressive. Opposing teams know how to play against it. Pogba can't be trusted in that role because he doesn't do the work and lacks the discipline, plus it neuters his creativity. Matic is laborious, positionally quite good, a better passer but desperately one sided and not mobile enough. Is the problem coaching and set up? Or are they just not good enough. I'm at a loss and the signing of Ronaldo is not papering over the Keano sized chasm

Erm Park Ji Sung was an utter beast and filled that gap till 2011 at least but yeah. Every one of the top teams has that great CDM. Liverpool have Fabhino, City have Fernandhino/Rodri and well Chelsea are stacked with Kante, Jorghino and Kovacic.

Fred was meant to be ours but he can have an absolutely beast of a performance now and again he is far too error prone. Scott Mctominay could be the one but he is currently injured. He has the work rate and can score a goal. He will be 25 in a couple of month so still very young but he keeps getting niggling injuries which isn't helping.

There was a period in Ole's first full season where he got injured in January till March and our results tanked with him gone.

 

[shipinabottle]

Erm Park Ji Sung was an utter beast and filled that gap till 2011 at least but yeah...

Erm Adam... Park Ji-Sung was an attacking midfielder as a winger or wide in a front three

 

[adam cool dude]

Erm Adam... Park Ji-Sung was an attacking midfielder as a winger or wide in a front three

I understand that but he pretty much played everywhere and anywhere. He was a very unique player imo. Able to cover many positions at once.

 

[FrankJH]

Im sorry but Im beyond belief at anyone criticizing Carrick - he was immense in many titles and every team had gaps vs that Barca team in 10-11 and probably for a few years around that too.

MC may not have been a typical CDM, but he was undoubtedly world class and utterly respected by the best in the game at the time for how he played.

Majority of that list were either highly versatile but jack of all trades or past their best before they got to Utd, or never worked in the EPL consistently in the first place.

Hargreaves would have been a beast for us without the significant knee injury he arrived at Utd with - but still think without him we probably wouldnt have won the CL in Russia in 08 (always think his role is downplayed in that game by majority of people).

I dont think any of Pogba, VdB or Anderson were ever identified as CDM's to start with or ever really played in that role (as yet) - as for me being part of a pivot isnt really CDM - for me this is a lone role at base of midfield rather than part of a duo (and for right or wrong the profile the club have looked for recently are central midfielders capable of doing everything rather than a specialist at CDM)

 

[father-ted]

Carrick went about his job without any fuss and is very underrated.
His positional play and the breaking up of opposition attacks was a leading reason as to why we won so much silverware.
He looked effortless and his sometimes sideway passing is what annoyed some fans imo.

 

[Mekrel]

I'm finding myself more perplexed at Ole's decisions as the weeks go by. There's an article in the BBC where Moyes has been quoted that Lingard on a permanent move to West Ham was never on the cards, as Ole was clear at the start of the window that he wanted Lingard at United.

Why? Why do we insist on keeping players that have had ample opportunities to cement themselves into the starting 11, or at least, be a solid member of the squad that you're glad to have on the bench? Lingard is neither of these things.

 

[father-ted]

Lingard is an occasional sub at best, he should never be in the starting 11.
I agree, he has had years of opportunity that he has never taken and the last season before he went to West Ham he played a lot of games that season without any goals or assists.

 

[Shamikebab]

I'm finding myself more perplexed at Ole's decisions as the weeks go by. There's an article in the BBC where Moyes has been quoted that Lingard on a permanent move to West Ham was never on the cards, as Ole was clear at the start of the window that he wanted Lingard at United.

Why? Why do we insist on keeping players that have had ample opportunities to cement themselves into the starting 11, or at least, be a solid member of the squad that you're glad to have on the bench? Lingard is neither of these things.

Yet other reports say Lingard turned down the move. I think he wants the payday he'll get from being a free transfer next summer.

 

[Mekrel]

You could be potentially correct, seeing as he supposedly doesn't want a new contract at United. Although I'm not sure what pay day he's hoping to achieve considering there are reports he's on £100k a week. I don't think Lingard can command a move to a type of club that will be willing to pay higher wages for him.

We also have form in struggling to offload players because potential destinations for said players aren't willing to pay the wages they're on at United.

 

[adam cool dude]

You could be potentially correct, seeing as he supposedly doesn't want a new contract at United. Although I'm not sure what pay day he's hoping to achieve considering there are reports he's on £100k a week. I don't think Lingard can command a move to a type of club that will be willing to pay higher wages for him.

We also have form in struggling to offload players because potential destinations for said players aren't willing to pay the wages they're on at United.

I think we have learnt from that however with wage demands and selling on players. It is only Ronaldo, Pogba and De Gea that are on astronomical wages. We even sold Dan James for a profit! It is a shame we couldn't have sold Lingard in the summer as that would be 50 mill back altogether.

We also have Tuanzebe on loan and if he has a good season for Villa we might get a few quid for him as well.

 

[BaZ87]

I think we have learnt from that however with wage demands and selling on players. It is only Ronaldo, Pogba and De Gea that are on astronomical wages

It was confirmed yesterday that Utd are expecting their wage bill to rise by approx £65m this season, which will take it to around £390m. It's safe to say that more than just those 3 are on astronomical wages. Varane and Sancho, at a minimum, will also be on huge money.

 

[adam cool dude]

It was confirmed yesterday that Utd are expecting their wage bill to rise by approx £65m this season, which will take it to around £390m. It's safe to say that more than just those 3 are on astronomical wages. Varane and Sancho, at a minimum, will also be on huge money.

Oh I forgot about Sancho he is indeed on huge wedge. Especially for his age. I guess when Pogba leaves in the summer it will come down a bit.

 

[FrankJH]

I'm finding myself more perplexed at Ole's decisions as the weeks go by. There's an article in the BBC where Moyes has been quoted that Lingard on a permanent move to West Ham was never on the cards, as Ole was clear at the start of the window that he wanted Lingard at United.

Why? Why do we insist on keeping players that have had ample opportunities to cement themselves into the starting 11, or at least, be a solid member of the squad that you're glad to have on the bench? Lingard is neither of these things.

Always read this as a bargaining move to try and get £5m more for player that was still needed (rather than wasnt needed and would therefore be cheaper).
It didnt work out - but given his recent goals for England and Utd, he might still be useful in tight games.

Why Utd offered him a new contract is a completely different scenario and doesnt make sense at all

Pogba, Lingard and a few others will disappear from the wage bill next summer so it will come down significantly Im sure

 

[Shamikebab]

Our wage to revenue is one of the lowest in the leagues so it doesn't matter too much.

 

[BaZ87]

Our wage to revenue is one of the lowest in the leagues...

Tbf most football clubs finances are bat **** crazy but they're not being run as a business in the same way your Utd's, Arsenal's or Liverpool's are. Your wage to turnover ratio was on the low side but it's gone up a fair bit now (albeit still not unaffordable) and is unlikely to come down this season given the forcasted wage increases.

 

[adam cool dude]

https://www.manutd.com/en/amp/news/detail/phil-jones-discusses-return-from-injury-on-utd-podcast

It's game over now. Our secret weapon is coming back.

The prophecy is going to come true and he is going to come back as CDM.

 

[doodah]

I've haven't seen that in a long while, gets me every time