The Mustang handling thread

[Ex-RoNiN]

In order to avoid spoiling Spie's thread, let's continue the discussion in this thread.

Overlag stated that in order to make a Mustang handle well, one ought to spend at least £5k.

Gibbo retorts that he had to spend less than £1k to bring the handling up to M3-like standards (bearing in mind it is a Saleen though, so already has uprated suspension)

I suggested that a stock GT could handle well on all roads within road legal speeds, but would require uprated suspension for more demanding driving - at stock, Overlag's figure might seem realistic?

What does everyone else think?

 

[Simon]

Live axles are poo.

Can close thread now

 

[eidolon]

I've never driven a Mustang but I find it hard to understand how such a heavy car with live rear axle can "handle"

I just can't see how it would be chuckable. Give it a twisty road and I fail to see how it would cope with changes in direction easily like an Elise does.

But like I said, I've never driven one so I'd be interested to learn more.

 

[TerryWogan]

How many people here have actually driven one? It's a completely pointless argument if nobody has.

 

[Spie]

How many people here have actually driven one? It's a completely pointless argument if nobody has.

Exactly.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

How many people here have actually driven one? It's a completely pointless argument if nobody has.

With no data logging equipment and scaling the handling on how it feels. it remains subjective anyway, more related to personal preferances than emperical data.

 

[penski]

[size=fivebloodymillion]IRS has zero advantage over a properly-located live axle.[/size]

*n

 

[TomO]

from the trackday @ bedford on saturday:

 

[Jonnycoupe]

[size=fivebloodymillion]IRS has zero advantage over a properly-located live axle.[/size]

*n

Easy

1) Unsprung mass.

 

[Phal]

What about fiat puntos? :E

 

[FakeSnake]

from the trackday @ bedford on saturday:

snipped[/QUOTE]
to ge fair though, that could well have been an inexperienced driver. Or the driver just got it wrong!
from that one photo, it means nothing.
There are photos and videos of M3s, M5s etc. in the gravel traps I am sure.
Does showing those photos in isolation also mean they are crap handling cars?

 

[Dolph]

In order to avoid spoiling Spie's thread, let's continue the discussion in this thread.

Overlag stated that in order to make a Mustang handle well, one ought to spend at least £5k.

Gibbo retorts that he had to spend less than £1k to bring the handling up to M3-like standards (bearing in mind it is a Saleen though, so already has uprated suspension)

I suggested that a stock GT could handle well on all roads within road legal speeds, but would require uprated suspension for more demanding driving - at stock, Overlag's figure might seem realistic?

What does everyone else think?

Does the fact that Gibbo also supercharged his 'stang mean the engine is rubbish too?

As I said in the other thread, technological superiority or 'on paper' ideas don't mean that much in the real world. Conventional wisdom says the engine in the 911 is in totally, utterly the wrong place, for example, or that the ITR shouldn't be on the list of best handling cars ever because the wrong set of wheels are driven. By contrast the MGF has all the on paper tickboxes for a great handling car (mid engined, RWD), but is rubbish.

I've not driven a mustang, so I can't comment from experience, but I can say that just because something seems a bad idea on paper, it doesn't follow the execution will be bad.

 

[eidolon]

How many people here have actually driven one? It's a completely pointless argument if nobody has.

Probably only one person here, and after spending £35k they're hardly going to turn around and say it's crap are they?

It all depends what floats your boat. Personally I don't like the feel of heavy cars, sure they might stick like glue on long sweeping bends but try a couple of chicanes and they struggle. I like how you can flick lightweight cars around. I'm not just talking about Elise's, but R5GTTs, 205 GTI's, Clio 172/182's, Tegs etc.

This video kinda sums it up for me

 

[willd58]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MPfxtJ8SQgk

I haven't been in the mustang so cant comment, but "American cars cant handle", now whilst this is a blanket statement, theres no smoke without fire, does the Mustang fall into this, who knows?

I'm pretty positive, if the suspension on the original mustang is stupidly poor for British standards, no amount of "upgrades" are guna change that fact, they'll just make something rubbish a bit better.

 

[eidolon]

By contrast the MGF has all the on paper tickboxes for a great handling car (mid engined, RWD), but is rubbish.

Eh?

Much to my surprise, the MGF handles brilliantly. It has excellent grip, is flickable, easy to feel the limits and you can safely push it beyond those limits whilst still being in control. I love it which is something I never thought I'd ever say.

 

[TerryWogan]

Probably only one person here, and after spending £35k they're hardly going to turn around and say it's crap are they?

It all depends what floats your boat. Personally I don't like the feel of heavy cars, sure they might stick like glue on long sweeping bends but try a couple of chicanes and they struggle. I like how you can flick lightweight cars around. I'm not just talking about Elise's, but R5GTTs, 205 GTI's, Clio 172/182's, Tegs etc.

This video kinda sums it up for me

I'm quite partial to a 205GTI, like

 

[Dolph]

Eh?

Much to my surprise, the MGF handles brilliantly. It has excellent grip, is flickable, easy to feel the limits and you can safely push it beyond those limits whilst still being in control. I love it which is something I never thought I'd ever say.

Well, certainly pre-revision, the one I drove (1998 VVC model, drove it in 1999 so it wasn't old and knackered) handled like a boring FWD shopping trolly, understeering everywhere no matter what you did unless you used a really brutal flick technique to get it to do something interesting.

It certainly didn't handle like a mid engined, RWD sports car.

 

[Ex-RoNiN]

Does the fact that Gibbo also supercharged his 'stang mean the engine is rubbish too?

Is that directed at me?? When/how did I say the 'stang is even close to rubbish??

I made my point clear - stock suspension on the GT is, in my opinion based on read articles only (and Gibbos threads ), perfectly sufficient for road legal speeds on any road in this country.

For harder driving, I do believe that upgrades, of the sort that Saleen/Roushe offer might be wise investment, but I am sure Gibbo can shed extra light on this.

What I believe Overlag was saying was that the kind of upgrade that Saleen/Roushe do on the GT would amount to £5k on a stock GT is performed independently (i.e. u upgrade suspension only on a stock GT in order to get to the same handling levels as Saleen/Roushe)

I don't see how this results in me apparently saying/thinking that the Mustang is rubbish?

 

[Dolph]

Is that directed at me?? When/how did I say the 'stang is even close to rubbish??

It's a musing on the idea that because Gibbo felt the need to modify the suspension it must be flawed. Not aimed at you specifically as you were only repeating someone else's view.

The fact that it could be improved doesn't necessarily mean it was bad in the first place. Any car can be improved from stock, for a variety of purposes, as you don't have to ensure it's a jack of all trades in the same way the manufacturer does.

 

[Ex-RoNiN]

It's a musing on the idea that because Gibbo felt the need to modify the suspension it must be flawed. Not aimed at you specifically as you were only repeating someone else's view.

The fact that it could be improved doesn't necessarily mean it was bad in the first place. Any car can be improved from stock, for a variety of purposes, as you don't have to ensure it's a jack of all trades in the same way the manufacturer does.

Oh yeah, I agree on that. Anything can be improved, I once read an article on someone supercharging and adding body kit on a Ferrari Doesn't mean that the original Ferrari was "bad".

It's the same case here, upgrades for specific purposes and like I said, I think that the stock version is just fine if you are going to drive it normally. From what I gather, you need to shell out money if you want it to handle like an M3 - which not everyone needs/sees as necessary.