Exactly, bang on the mark.
he isn't even the best CDM that Barca has, Mascherano is the better player, he's more mobile by far.
Other CDM's which are better than Buscquets:
Lucas, Alonso, Parker,
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Exactly, bang on the mark.
he isn't even the best CDM that Barca has, Mascherano is the better player, he's more mobile by far.
Other CDM's which are better than Buscquets:
Lucas, Alonso, Parker,
Caporegime
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lol
you have no clue what it is Busquets actually does, please read the long post, seriously you will learn a lot.
He doesn't just run about like a headless chicken making tackles and breaking up play like Lucas.
He is always 1 step ahead of the other team, constantly filling in at the back and letting the full backs Dani Alves mainly roam forward, he also is constantly checking to see which player is in space, so when he gets the ball he plays a direct pass to that player straight away before he is closed down.
Seriously read the full post, including the zonal marking links and also watch the youtube videos.
It's the reason why Spain dominate and the reason why Barcelona dominate is because Busquets starts every play and then fills in at the back whilst full backs bomb forward.
The team is constantly changing formation when he is in midfield they have 4 at the back, when he drips back to middle CB, the other 2 CB's split wide and the 2 full backs bomb forward, so they switch from 4 at the back to 3 at the back. This provides far more width, far more attacking prowess as well as a solid defensive setup should the other team get the ball.
Why did Guardiola promote him to the first team within 1 season of being there even though he already had guys like Yaya and Keita, etc?
People think Yaya is the better holding mid, but when he left Barca their possession stats have increased. Busquets is the reason why Barca and Spain Midfielders, Full Backs get so much freedom, he plays extremely disciplined football, he is the unsung hero within the team.
Seriously take 20 minutes to read the full post including the links and watching videos.
lol, np dude, was a really close one, those short free kicks of yours had my back 4 just standing there boggle eyed!
I gave up on shooting from FK's because it was pointless but have been doing well with the little dink especially with Pique's size!
I have read your post Sonny, I have the watched the videos and I have my own opinion.
No where did i say he was ****. He IS a good player, however he isn't one of the greatest CDM's ever as you stated. In fact, he's no where near.
to be one of the greatest in his position ever, he must be surely, the greatest or one of a maximum of three, greatest players who are currently playing?
Well, he isn't. He's not that mobile, he's a cheating ****, he breaks up play well enough and can pick a pass, but he isn't the well rounded player that you think he is. Again, I'm not saying he's awful. He's just not one of the greatest, especially at the age of 23. He's no Messi.
I have my opinions, I also have my own experience. I have been a manager before, I'm currently a coach and an assistant manager (sometimes manager) for a team on a saturday (second biggest in my area after AFC Telford - County league). I have also managed this team, I have picked players, formations, coached specific towards opposition and brought in new players to fill positions. This gives me more of a qualified opinion surely, rather than "my family owns a 5-aside complex".
Souness, Matthaus, Redondo, Keane, Viera, Tardelli, Tigana, Rijkaard... those are GREAT CDM's, Busquets couldn't even lace their boots. Not yet any ways.
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the game has changed a lot since most of those players played at their prime.
it's like Pele saying he is better than Messi because he has won 3 world cups and Messi has none, it's ridiculous and not as easy to compare historic players with current ones due to the game evolving.
Busquets beats all of those players for the whole 1 touch passing, which is the way football is played today, high pressure, in those day's guys like Pele dominated because quite frankly all defenders did was break legs, they weren't as technical as they are now.
Also Keane made one of the most despicable tackles ever seen, he should have been sent to jail for that one.
The game changes all the time, but you're talking about being on of the greatest CDM's ever, those are the greatest CDM's ever. If you state that the game is changed and that you can't comapre the two, then surely you'd have to create a new position for Busquets for the modern football. Greatest MCDM ever?!?
You really think Busquets beats Redondo, Tigana, Tardelli and Matthaus for passing? Really?
I've not just listen people from Pele's era, I've gone through all ears and listed players. Modern players too, viera was playing a couple of years ago, so was Keane.
The greatest CDM ever for me was Viera, who literally had everything. he also played in a one touch football team who play a similar style to Barca. Also dominated midfields for years which Busquets doesn't do. He dominated whilst some of the greatest players were playing in the prem. Week in and week out he was up against the likes of Keane, Scholes, Gerrard, Essien, Makelele (how could I forget Claude - Put him up there!). Scored goals, won everything in the air. Was quick, mobile and lots of stanima. The perfect CDM and a modern CDM.
Keane did make a despicable tackle, agreed. But why should that tar is reputation? If you talk about Busquets and diving, rolling around holding his face whilst peeking through his fingers and that not damaging his reputation then you need to take the same approach to Keane.
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good points, i would like to re-iterate mine with this video from spanish thread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgT3f9aENX0&feature=player_embedded
i honestly doubt Viera pulled off similar passes tbh, especially at the age of 21-23.
take note of the quotes too, xavi and co all think he is amazing.
also Busquets diving when he was 21 and Keane making that tackle much later on in his career are 2 completely different situations i would think on a scale of worse scenarios, a youngster can make mistakes and be more easily forgiven, but an experienced captain is a whole different matter imo.
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Some things he does really really well. Absolutely.
He isn't THAT great a passer though. He can pick a pass, without doubt. He sits in front of Puyol and Pique, picks the ball up and gives it to Xavi, gets it again and keeps it moving. That in it's self is not hard, Lucas does that job for Liverpool and I believe he does it better than Busquets.
What Busquets does do really well, is in his positioning. However, he's still not one of the greatest in history, I will not conceed that point until many years down the line. He's far too young and isn't that special of a talent (ala Messi) to be considered one of the greatest ever at his age. I don't believe he's the best in the world right now! I'd have Alonso or Lucas there before Busquets (if Lucas can come back from his ACL tear).
That one instance of Busquets diving which was caught was shocking, however that's not his only dive. What about his dive last year when marcello fending him off a challenge by putting his hand on his chest - he held his face. In the same game, 10 minutes before that he also did exactly the same.
He does it every game.
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it's not just his positioning and passing but his decision making, he senses danger and always manages to pick a safe option. in the above video there is a moment he could have headed to his left to his free defender i think it was but he sensed danger as the other team pressed forward and even though his player was free he opted to header forwards, very good decision making instead of putting his player under pressure.
Lucas is nowhere near as good, he wasn't even considered good enough for Brazil's national team at the world cup and even Ramires who isn't considered particularly good has played more international games than him.
Lucas's injury is to his ACL, players never make a full recovery from an ACL and usually get the same injury over and over again having to have the same operation 3 or 4 times. The knee joint and the shoulder joint are the two most complex in the body, if you injure either properly like ACL or Rotator Cuff then you never ever get back to 100%, you can strengthen it and let it heal, but it's never the same again.
I've hyper extended one knee playing football, ortho surgeon said i'm lucky im super flexible otherwise i would have torn my ACL, thank god it never happened because i know how bad they are, i also damaged my rotator cuff doing overhead presses, it has healed and been strengthened but i now take extra care when weight lifting because i can feel it's no longer the same.
Lucas will most likely be injury ridden for the rest of his life, especially when you take into account the amount of physical stress his knee will have to go through, very rarely after an ACL tear does the player never have issues again.
Lucas will play again for Liverpool, but he will be prone to injury, if he focuses on not damaging his knee then other muscles and joints will be put under pressure making them more injury prone.
Sorry but Lucas most likely will never be fully 100% ever again.
Lucas is Brazils best CDM, he was U20 captain and has been a regular for Brazil. he made the most tackles in any of the top 4 leagues in the whole of last season. Liverpool have missed Lucas more than season, than missing Stevie for 8 months, and that's a fact. We're a different team without Lucas.
Yes he didn't go to the last world cup, but he will be at the next one I'm sure of it. he's only 25.
Yes Lucas has injured his ACL, but you're stating that players never make a full recovery? Well that's just rubbish frankly. Van Nistelrooy made a full recovery after doing his ACL and went on to play for many years at Man U? Owen tore his ACL and made a full recovery (his injury problems are down to his hamstring injuries as a kid at Liverpool). Jamie Redknapp, Lothar Matthaus also have done their ACL's and both had long careers.
Also, players do make full recoveries from ACL injuries and they very rarely do the same injury again. It's very unlikely. There are three choices as to what to do once you tear your ACL:
1)You can repair it by using part of your hamstring, which generally takes around 9 months to heal.
2)You can take the middle part of your patella tendon and get that fixed into place, which generally takes 12 months.
3)You can take the ACL of a dead person who has given his body away to science and medicine and get it transplanted into your knee.
With the hamstring it takes less time as the hamstring heals quicker. The patella tendon takes more time as the patella has to heal from the damage you do taking the middle section of it away. However both are then STRONGER than a ligament. Although it can't send eletrical signals up and down the ligament to aid with balance (you have to teach your other muscles around the knee to do that for you - effectively learning to walk again), they are stronger to break and take many many hundreds more newton meter forces more than a ligament. So it's very unlikely for it to break again, or get the same injury. Especially in the first two examples as the grafts aren't going to be rejected as they are taken from your own body. The third one is pretty rare, though Richard Steadman does do it apparently.
I can also tell you it is absolutely possible to make a full return, like Lucas will. I can tell you that with 100% certainty because I ripped my ACL and cartilidge in May 2010. I was back playing again 6-7 months later (non contact 5-7 aside taken at a light pace) and a full recovery after 12 months. I'm back playing minimum three times a week. Although obviously not at the same intensity, it is possible.
You can't say he will never be 100% again, as he has a chance to be. The operation was successful and he's already working in rehab. If he can regain the form which he had for Liverpool over the last 18 months then he will be a monster again.
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This has nothing to do with FIFA.
it stemmed from a FIFA conversation and the debate as to which player is the best in their position. Sonny then commented about injuries, Lucas and other players, so I responded?
Problem? use the back button or skip over the posts? Not that big a deal is it surely?
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Zonal marking suggests that in the modern game tackling is not the best way of winning the ball but interceptions are, Lucas is still playing the game it was played 10 years ago, interceptions are now what matters.
Zonal Marking has all sorts of tables and charts which back this up.
Or else Liverpool would have finished much higher last season and this season etc, if he truely was that good, sure he can tackle, but that's it and the game has progressed from those days and interceptions matter a lot more.
i'll see if i can find the link.
edit
http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/07/30/central-midfield-role/
it's all about interceptions not tackles.
some quotes
46.1 compared to 38.9 is not a huge difference, but large enough to consider intercepting a more important way of gaining possession than tackling.
We can also find that the number of successful tackles in these games has declined in recent years, from 46.3 in 2006/07 to 38.9 in 2009/10
Zonal Marking has all sorts of tables and charts which back this up.
Or else Liverpool would have finished much higher last season and this season etc, if he truely was that good, sure he can tackle, but that's it and the game has progressed from those days and interceptions matter a lot more.
i'll see if i can find the link.
edit
http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/07/30/central-midfield-role/
it's all about interceptions not tackles.
some quotes
46.1 compared to 38.9 is not a huge difference, but large enough to consider intercepting a more important way of gaining possession than tackling.
We can also find that the number of successful tackles in these games has declined in recent years, from 46.3 in 2006/07 to 38.9 in 2009/10
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Everything which you have shown so far Lucas does.
If you go to www.footylounge.com/films//milankakabaros and check out the youtube vids of Lucas v Chelsea and Lucas v Bolton (can't link you I'm afraid as I'm at work) and you'll see the work Lucas is does and that it's of a high quality. Video's aren't biased either as they share him giving the ball away when he does.
If you go to www.footylounge.com/films//milankakabaros and check out the youtube vids of Lucas v Chelsea and Lucas v Bolton (can't link you I'm afraid as I'm at work) and you'll see the work Lucas is does and that it's of a high quality. Video's aren't biased either as they share him giving the ball away when he does.
Caporegime
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Lucas does do it, but he doesn not even come close to being as good as Busquets is, nobody is as good as Busquets is currently, he has been a part of the best youth programme in the world, being around the best team ever in the world in both Spain and Barcelona.
In fact if Lucas was better than Busquets then Guardiola surely would have bought Lucas instead of Mascherano? Also if Guardiola rated Mascherano more than Lucas and Lucas is supposedly better than Busquets then Mascherano would start ahead of Busquets? Guardiola rates them as following Busquets > Mascherano > Lucas.
Guardiola said himself the first name on the sheet is Busquets. He chose him to be the second man in his set piece setup in champions league final.
This all points to not just me but Guardiola a professional manager saying that Busquets is a lot better than not only Mascherano but a lot better than Lucas.
In fact if Lucas was better than Busquets then Guardiola surely would have bought Lucas instead of Mascherano? Also if Guardiola rated Mascherano more than Lucas and Lucas is supposedly better than Busquets then Mascherano would start ahead of Busquets? Guardiola rates them as following Busquets > Mascherano > Lucas.
Guardiola said himself the first name on the sheet is Busquets. He chose him to be the second man in his set piece setup in champions league final.
This all points to not just me but Guardiola a professional manager saying that Busquets is a lot better than not only Mascherano but a lot better than Lucas.
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Lucas wasn't for sale, but Mascherano was. Masch was for sale as his family (especially his wife) was unsettled in Liverpool. I'd have Lucas in my team every day over Busquets.
Caporegime
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it's a debate, i'm stating that Lucas is nowhere near as good as Busquets, whereas he doesn't seem to think so, but I'm pretty sure the current Manager of the current world cup winning team and the current manager of the current champions league team agrees with me.
saying Lucas is better than Busquets is quite frankly laughable.
anyway I've made my point, and Zonal marking website is in agreement with me also.
Caporegime
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load of rubbish, everyone at Liverpool was for sale, they all went
Alonso, Arbeloa, Mascherano, Torres.
Do you not know who the Liverpool owners were at the time? All they cared about was money not the club, had Guardiola wanted Lucas he could have easily got him.