They wont let me cancel my contract for a new phone.

Soldato
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I was tempted to sign up (internet E2Save) for Orange Dolphin @£35 a month for 18 months and receive a 'clearance' N95+ 8gig + 7months free rental.

Shiny phone arrives on Fri 1/8/08 with version 10 of the software so I try to update to the latest (21) via Nokia updater ....... it won't.
I then wait in various queues with Nokia, Orange and Carphone Warehouse, who all seem to be experiencing an extremely high number of calls (wonder why) only to be passed from one to the other with each one denying any responsibility.

I then try to top up the battery and the charger won't go into the socket on the phone, even though it's the correct one.

Eventually, Carphone Warehouse decide that they will exchange the N95.
I swap the first handset for another with the nice man from Citylink on Mon 4/8/08 and find that the software is version 11 this time so try to update to 21 ..... it lets me go to vesion 13 but not 21.

Much queueing and **** music later, Nokia tech' guys tell me it's Orange who 'modify' the original software, therefore it is an Orange problem; Orange tell me that Nokia make the handsets and it's Nokia's problem.
Having had enough, I ring Carphone Warehouse to cancel any contracts to be told that as soon as I put the sim in, I accepted the contract and that I couldn't get out. I'm currently trying to 'escalate' the procedure with Orange, who say the same thing even though I've not made any calls.

3 questions:

1) how is one supposed to check the operation/functionality of the phone without putting the sim in?

2) I would have thought that the T&C stating that inserting the sim invalidates the right to return within 7 days is a case of unfair contractual terms and therefore not enforcable?

3) What do you guys suggest? Any ideas would be welcome.

Not quite the same but it's a bit like buying a computer and finding that it's running Windows 95 and you are not able to change the OS.

Not 'unfit for purpose' but not what I thought I was getting either. :mad:
 
You can't invalidate your distance selling act rights by putting the sim card in. You *always* have seven working days with a phone purchased via mail order/internet/over the phone to return the goods.

It's CPW you need to be dealing with, not Orange, as they are the retailer, and your rights under the DSA are with them.
 
Not being able to upgrade to the very latest firmware is not unusual on mobile phones, most of the carriers brand the firmwares that are released and/or remove features they don't want you to have (Orange and Vodafone famously remove the VoIP functionality from the N95/N95 8GB). This process can take time and it's also not surprising that the firmware you are allowed to download lags behind the SIM-free firmware.

The solution is to debrand your phone which is what I did with my N95 8GB the day after I bought it.
 
The software update problem isn't a "fault" as such.

Nokia release a generic unbranded firmware. Only unbranded phones can download this software via the Nokia Software Update programme.

It is then up to the operators (i.e. Orange) to take the unbranded firmware and add their own customisations to it. Some operators do this on a regular basis, some do not. Some don't do it at all. If you've got an Orange branded handset then you're stuck with the latest firmware that they've customised. This is rarely the latest version.

And others have stated, quote the Distance Selling Act to CPW. They're legally obliged to take the handset back for a full refund.
 
You can't update the F/W to the newest version as its an Orange branded device. Until Orange approve the F/W (if they do) then you won't be able to update the handset to the newest F/W. Unfortunatly all operatetor branded hadnsets have this issue. The only way around this is:
1) Buy SIM Free
2) Debrand the hadnset

However if you debrand the handset, you risk loosing your warranty.

As for canceling the phone, you issue is with CPW exclusively. You have 7 days to send goods back if you don't like them if they were bought remotely (Distance Selling Act). Speak to CPW/E2SAVE and ask them to cancel the contract. You are perfectly entitiled to within your rights. If however you've had the device for more then 7 days, then your stuck with the handset.

I'm not sure you'd have any legal ground to stand on with sending the device back because you can't update to the newest F/W. The phone was never advertised as having vxxx F/W, you just can't get the newest one. Taking the PC anology, its like buying a PC with Windows 3.1 then wanting to send it back because it can't run Vista. If they never said it would, its not their fault is it?
 
You can't invalidate your distance selling act rights by putting the sim card in. You *always* have seven working days with a phone purchased via mail order/internet/over the phone to return the goods.

It's CPW you need to be dealing with, not Orange, as they are the retailer, and your rights under the DSA are with them.

I think that they are all relying on this (taken from the Distance selling reg's).



Also the right to cancel does not apply to the following, unless you agree otherwise:

Services that begin, by agreement, before the end of the cancellation period providing the supplier has informed the consumer before the conclusion of the contract, in writing or another durable medium, that he will not be able to cancel once performance of the services has begun with his agreement.


I'm going to cancel the Direct Debit anyway; that should liven things up!
 
I think that they are all relying on this (taken from the Distance selling reg's).

Also the right to cancel does not apply to the following, unless you agree otherwise:

Services that begin, by agreement, before the end of the cancellation period providing the supplier has informed the consumer before the conclusion of the contract, in writing or another durable medium, that he will not be able to cancel once performance of the services has begun with his agreement.

Have they informed you in writing to that effect?

I'm going to cancel the Direct Debit anyway; that should liven things up!

Don't do this, this is the worst thing you can do. For a start, Orange aren't the ones restricting your rights, so they won't appreciate you taking your frustrations out on them. Secondly as the account gets into arrears, it can adversely affect your credit rating. Thirdly, it puts you in a breach of contract situation which tends to be looked on unfavourably if the situation progresses further.

Cancelling your DD is never a good way to deal with any problem, because the moment you stop paying the bills, you lose any claim you had that they may have breached the contract due to your willful and clear breach of contract...

EDIT: CPW's orange T&C's mention nothing about this, in fact they specifically state about the 7 day period.

http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/co...RNET.HELPINFO.ORDERONLINE.NETWORKTERMS.ORANGE

Actually, here are E2save's ones.

http://media.e2save.com/tandc/www/exchange_and_refund.pdf

Which do contain the strange 'using the sim card' clause that the standard CPW site doesn't, I'm guessing this is why E2save provide better deals than normal CPW...
 
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Just out of interest, why do you so desperately want to update the firmware?

Because Nokia say The benefits of updating the Nokia device firmware include getting new features, applications, and performance improvements to your device.

Using the PC analogy again, like installing Service Packs/bug fixes etc.
 
0557135 Vodafone UK N95 8GB
0549487 EURO 1 (aka SIM free)

Not sure I can say more than that without straying into naughty territory... Dons?
 
Just to bring you up to date:

Orange "executive office" just rang ( I sent them a 'snotty' email) to say that they would take it out of CPW's hands and cancel my contract as I have been a customer of theirs for many years.

Common sense prevails at last.
 
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