• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

Think my 8800 Ultra is on it's way out.

RoachycaL

RoachycaL

RoachycaL

Soldato
Joined
2 Jan 2006
Posts
3,152
Location
Newcastle Upon Tyne
So I switched the PC on today only to find that the screen is covered with red and blue lines, even in the BIOS and whilst Windows is booting up.

I tried a replacement card straight away and it was fine - pointing to the 8800 being at fault. I bought it second hand in 2008, so it is well out of warranty!

Two questions:

1. Is there any way to fix artifact issues? This card still suits my needs fine and it feels like a waste throwing it out. I have read about baking it in the oven - would that help.

2. Most importantly, if I'm looking for a replacement which is £80-90 - what would I buy? I don't mind if it's Nvdia or AMD. How much of an improvement would I see going from an 8800 Ultra to a modern day £80-90 card?

Thanks for the help!

EDIT: I should mention that of this moment my PC is near silent - so I would prefer something with a third party cooler attached. Stock coolers are normally horrible.
 
You could always try the old oven trick - you bake your GPU in a hot oven for a few minutes (seriously...). It may or may not work, and if it does it will probably only buy you a little time. It's highly likely your card has seen its last day.

As for replacement GPUs, something like this would probably see you right.

In terms of performance it should be a fair bit faster than an 8800GTX. As for how much improvement you will see, it all really depends what you're using the card for.
 
Have you overclocked it at all (past the stock overclock)? What are your temps like? You have ruled out cables being a factor by saying it works with another card so those are the other 2 main things to look at. Otherwise it would seem your card is probably dying

Regarding a new card in that price range... if you can stretch to £99 then you can pick up an ATI Radeon HD6850 which would be a significant improvement over an 8800. Talking from experience as I went from an 8800 ultra to a 5850 myself a while ago. There is an Asus card on a this week only at that price or normally there is an OCUK own brand option.
 
Duff-Man said:
You could always try the old oven trick - you bake your GPU in a hot oven for a few minutes (seriously...). It may or may not work, and if it does it will probably only buy you a little time. It's highly likely your card has seen its last day.

As for replacement GPUs, something like this would probably see you right.

In terms of performance it should be a fair bit faster than an 8800GTX. As for how much improvement you will see, it all really depends what you're using the card for.
Click to expand...

I might try the baking trick but to be honest, I think I could stick it on eBay and make 20 quid off it (I'm struggling for cash at the moment). If I stick it in the oven, I doubt I'll get a sale on eBay!

BluSky said:
Have you overclocked it at all (past the stock overclock)? What are your temps like? You have ruled out cables being a factor by saying it works with another card so those are the other 2 main things to look at. Otherwise it would seem your card is probably dying

Regarding a new card in that price range... if you can stretch to £99 then you can pick up an ATI Radeon HD6850 which would be a significant improvement over an 8800. Talking from experience as I went from an 8800 ultra to a 5850 myself a while ago. There is an Asus card on a this week only at that price or normally there is an OCUK own brand option.
Click to expand...

I haven't overclocked it no. I haven't tried messing with the cables but I'm sitting with my trusty X850XT plugged in there at the moment and that's displaying fine so I can only presume it is the card that is at fault.

Thanks for the card advice. This may be a blessing in disguise because I've been due for an upgrade for a while and I guess this is my excuse. I think I could stretch to £100 so I'll try and find something in that range with a third party cooler.

Are Nvidia and AMD cards in the same league nowadays? I'm totally out of the loop now I'm afraid!
 
RoachycaL said:
I might try the baking trick but to be honest, I think I could stick it on eBay and make 20 quid off it (I'm struggling for cash at the moment). If I stick it in the oven, I doubt I'll get a sale on eBay!

Thanks for the card advice. This may be a mixed blessing because I've been due for an upgrade for a while and I guess this is my excuse. I think I could stretch to £100 so I'll try and find something in that range with a third party cooler.

Are Nvidia and AMD cards in the same league nowadays? I'm totally out of the loop now I'm afraid!
Click to expand...

Like for like Nvidia cards tend to be more pricy but more powerful. However AMD is still the king of price / performance ratios in general, especially down the lower priced end of the market. The Asus 6850 currently on sale seen here has a third party cooler. It is a very good card for the money.

Previously I had a single 5850 in my system (just a tiny bit more powerful than the 6850) and that is capable of running skyrim on high with 8xaa. (Coupled with an oc'd q6600). You may not want it for gaming... I am just emphasising that it is a good card for the money
 
RoachycaL said:
Thanks for the card advice. This may be a blessing in disguise because I've been due for an upgrade for a while and I guess this is my excuse. I think I could stretch to £100 so I'll try and find something in that range with a third party cooler

Are Nvidia and AMD cards in the same league nowadays? I'm totally out of the loop now I'm afraid!
Click to expand...

If you're using the card primarily for gaming, then the extra stretch to the 6850 will be well worthwhile.

edit - the Nvidia - AMD situation depends entirely on what price range you're looking at, though the overall balance of power is with AMD right now as Nvidia have not yet released their new range (due from April onwards). For ~£100 the 6850 is probably the best bet at the moment, and I don't see that changing too quickly.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the advice people! After looking through a few other threads on the site, the Asus card seems to be a great price this week so I've gone with that. Should be here on Thursday apparently.

I think I'll stick the 8800 on eBay anyway, see if I can make a bit of cash back.
 
Don't waste your time baking it. It only lasts a couple of weeks.

I ended up baking mine about four times. Just a waste of thermal paste IMO.

You could always find a cheap 8800 GTX and put the cooler on it.

Ed. If you do decide to bake it make sure you put some weight on the GPU and bake it this way, not upside down like some stupid yank does in a Youtube guide.

Reason is simple - mavity. Bits will soon start falling off.

weights.jpg
 
Last edited:
baked mine at 180 for 8 minutes i think it was google it anyway did it to an old one of mine lasted a good 6 months time to save or wait for another one
 
Release said:
Can anyone explain why this baking trick works? I've never heard of it before quite curious ! :)
Click to expand...

Your GPU (the main square chip) has a series of balls of solder. It's called a ball grid array.

What happens is the card is basically screen printed with solder paste, components dropped on it and then into an oven. It's basically a very expensive convection oven.

Given that the board it rests on is fibreglass it is prone to expanding and contracting as it heats and cools. As this happens stress is put onto the BGA (ball grid array) and eventually if it runs hot the balls will crack.

This is a professional reflow oven. What they mean by reflow is the solder is heated to melting point allowing it to make contact again.

bgaoven.jpg


Now if you look at this.

workingGPU.jpg


And then this.

failedgpu.jpg


You can see how the failure occurs. Nvidia tried getting around this by putting a metal frame around the GPU core to prevent the flexing but it didn't really help.

The problem (that many don't realise) is not the heat, and not the GPU, and not the PCB flexing. It is down to the solder itself. Around six years ago companies were slapped with an eco law that prevented them from using lead based solder. Solder in its entirety is made up of two components.

1. Is a base metal (used to be lead, will explain more in a sec)
2. Is flux. Flux is basically an epoxy based "glue" that allows the solder to stick to the contact it joins and then harden to prevent the lead going soft.

So why over the past few years are GPUs failing so much?

The solder itself. It is now non lead based ROHS (the safety standard) solder that it composed from a tin alloy. The problem of course is that tin alloy has a higher melting point due to it being harder. With the temper of the solder (the hardness) comes the fact that it is brittle. So when the PCB expands and contracts the likelihood of the solder cracking due to being harder is far higher.

Here you can see a failed solder joint.

brokensolder.jpg


Basically the flux has deteriorated to the point that it is no more. As such whilst a bake in the oven may botch over the contact it does not replace the failed flux which will degrade as the months and years pass.

Due to it being a BGA there is no way to reapply the flux. So when you bake it the solder will melt and in most cases make contact again, but it's only a matter of time before you end up with another stress fracture and failure.
 
:D hahahaha !

The most important tip of course is that you absolutely don't use the guides on the net that show this.

aluminiumballs.jpg


Give it ten seconds too long and things start dropping off.

IIRC 15 minutes was enough to completely strip a GTS 8800 of all of its bits. I made a lovely keyring from the GPU :D

Sod to drill through though ! took about twenty minutes and melted the tips of two bits lol.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom