This isn't right is it

Sp00n · 8 Dec 2009 at 14:54

I've been given a new client today who are having "sticky" network issues.

I noticed the server only had 1gb of ram so thats been upgraded to 5 which is now fine, however whilst I was inside the server, I saw an SSD connected with a sata > ide convertor which I thought was odd.

Now the server is still pretty slow and constantly hangs in the middle of stuff (not sure how this is affecting network users). I checked device manager and its only running UDMA2.

So the question is, does it sound likely that running a single SSD 32gb disc as boot/system in UDMA2 going to cause the server to be very slow/hangy?

It looks like its using the standard windows driver for the IDE which is possibly why its running in UDMA2 and I will have to update that out of hours.

ethos · 8 Dec 2009 at 14:57

Have you checked out performance monitor yet?

Specifically %Disk Time and Avg. Disk Queue Length (there are others worth having a look at too).

Sp00n · 8 Dec 2009 at 15:02

On idle it doesnt seem abnormal, but if I browse some files it will peak at roughly 90 both queue and disk time.

I dont use the perfmon so I dont really know what I'm looking at, that seems normal as the disc is being accessed to read the files.

s0ck · 14 Dec 2009 at 01:08

What OS? How much was it paging before?

Some of the early SSDs had controller issues with delayed writes. Symptoms were 'hanging' for a number of seconds before being able to do anything. May not be visible via the normal counters indicated above.

Personally... sounds like an 'enthusiast' has been dabbling. Sell them a proper server+install or enjoy the daily helpdesk calls it generates

dave-lew99 · 14 Dec 2009 at 08:12

I had a similar problem recently - the OS reverted back to PIO mode for the HDD (windows does this if it detects a number of sequential CRC errors using UDMA).

In PIO mode the system was using a full CPU core's worth of time to service interrupts and the system was incredibly slow.

Run the Sysinternals process monitor and it'll show up if that's the problem.

Hodders · 16 Dec 2009 at 10:50

Love it - fit an SSD costing several hundred pounds and leave the poor thing running 1GB ram.

As a previous poster has said - get a proper server installed.

Sp00n · 16 Dec 2009 at 10:59

It is a proper server, it just wasn't setup properly by the other company, but thanks for your input.

Hodders · 16 Dec 2009 at 12:23

Fair enough - best of luck.

It just seems that when users start messing around with servers it means that they are out of warranty and running on legacy hardware that is impossible to replace if it goes wrong.

Ask them to put a 1-5 against how critical each of the services on the server is. Then get them to put a financal value against each function if it fails for 24 hours. Add them up and you will almost certainly be able to justify a modern server with a full warranty.

I remember pointing out to a FD that his company car was newer than all of their servers. If his car went wrong it was inconvenient, if the servers went wrong it was a disaster. He agreed a rolling upgrade plan the same day.

s0ck · 16 Dec 2009 at 14:18

Hodders said:
I remember pointing out to a FD that his company car was newer than all of their servers. If his car went wrong it was inconvenient, if the servers went wrong it was a disaster. He agreed a rolling upgrade plan the same day.

Haha, good one

Sp00n · 16 Dec 2009 at 16:38

Well I've been booked in to rebuild the whole server starting from scratch, hopefully should improve things as I just dont think the SSD is up to the job of boot/sql/everythingelse.

Thanks peeps

Sp00n · 18 Dec 2009 at 13:44

I think this SSD is one of the original, its a samsung mcaqe32g 5APP, PATA and UDMA5/ata66 its got written on it.

Tried to image the drive on to a normal ide disk but acronis won't pick it up

bigredshark · 18 Dec 2009 at 13:52

Sp00n said:
It is a proper server, it just wasn't setup properly by the other company, but thanks for your input.

If it's got an IDE connected SSD then it's really not a proper server...hell I can't see the point in having an SSD as a boot drive in a small business server at all, can't be anywhere near value for money.

s0ck · 18 Dec 2009 at 15:20

Sp00n said:
I think this SSD is one of the original, its a samsung mcaqe32g 5APP, PATA and UDMA5/ata66 its got written on it.

Tried to image the drive on to a normal ide disk but acronis won't pick it up

So you're now lumbered with a ****ter of a job

Try Storagecraft IT edition; supposedly a bit better than Acronis. Create an image of the server whilst it's running without any local install.

Original comment stands though, new server, new install and peace of mind

Sp00n · 18 Dec 2009 at 20:56

Why cant i find a driver for the intel 5000z chipset, there is 5000p, 5000x and 5000v but no Z =/

Inwanty09 · 31 Dec 2009 at 01:57

This isnt right is it

i dont remember right now, but i have the link saved on my other computer, as soon as i get to it on Tuesday ill let u know.

Hades · 31 Dec 2009 at 12:05

s0ck said:
Original comment stands though, new server, new install and peace of mind

I'm not in hardware support but isn't that statement a little like admitting defeat? i.e. if you're not sure what the problem is then just throw it out and buy a new one? Agreed that if, after diagnosing the issue, that may be the best course of action. But until root cause is understood then it may not resolve the problem (for example it could be a software issue somewhere).

Yamahahahahaha · 31 Dec 2009 at 12:51

This package has the Intel 5000Z chipset driver included.

http://download.cnet.com/Chipset-Driver-Intel-Ver-8-3-0-1010-zip/3000-2122_4-162229.html

I would get a new server, this one sounds like a self built jobbie.

Hades said:
I'm not in hardware support but isn't that statement a little like admitting defeat? i.e. if you're not sure what the problem is then just throw it out and buy a new one?

It's very much like admitting defeat. Cut your losses and get it sorted.
It comes down to what the cost to the business is (having slow access), and how much his time is worth on top (having wasted it on trying to fix it).
It's a false economy to keep botching things and 'making good' if it's just knackered.

s0ck · 31 Dec 2009 at 19:30

Hades said:
I'm not in hardware support but isn't that statement a little like admitting defeat? i.e. if you're not sure what the problem is then just throw it out and buy a new one?

Hardware, software, whatever. Once you fix something, you implicitly take ownership of it without making any margin on the tin in the first place.

If you're going to add maintenance to it, it may as well install+maintenance so you're making some cash on it and in control of the call drivers, not constantly on the back foot guessing what the previous supplier bodged this time and tying up your helpdesk resource for an hour at a time.

But until root cause is understood then it may not resolve the problem (for example it could be a software issue somewhere).

You're absolutely right and it may be just my limited experience but what the OP described instantly rang alarm bells in my mind as:

****** SERVER INSTALL - AVOID*

I suppose I was just trying to help the OP avoid a scenario where you get one of these customers where nothing is ever good enough, because they won't pay the moola for proper kit so everything is always the hardware guy's fault

Sp00n · 2 Jan 2010 at 11:52

Its an HP so yes, it is a self build jobby, why do HP send out their servers half built and expect you to put it together? really getting fedup with this now.

I updated the drivers and the whole system is now running MUCH quicker, however its only temp as I will be pursuading the MD to get a couple more sas drives + caddies and setup a proper raid volume to boot off of.

Nikumba · 4 Jan 2010 at 15:43

Sp00n said:
Its an HP so yes, it is a self build jobby, why do HP send out their servers half built and expect you to put it together? really getting fedup with this now.

I updated the drivers and the whole system is now running MUCH quicker, however its only temp as I will be pursuading the MD to get a couple more sas drives + caddies and setup a proper raid volume to boot off of.

Its all about stock holding from HPs side.

Dell build to order, whereas HP have a DL380G6 with a few different CPU and RAM configs, you then order extra disk etc and add it. Which is why you often get a HP server quicker than you can get a Dell server

This way they only have to keep a few models as we run some DL380 wint 3 SAS disks in and some with 8, so we can keep our costs down as we buy the disks and memory that we want, not what HP thinks we need

Kimbie