Tidal & MQA Question (Another One!)

[Housey]

I have a Tidal subscription that allows me to access 'Master' content which I believe(?) is only delivered via the MQA format. However, in my main listening area I do not have an MQA enabled DAC (I do on my PC ironically), so it will not decode MQA. For streaming in this area I use a MacMini connected to the DAC (NAIM V1) via USB and then into my SuperNait2 Amp, but I have some questions for people who understand Tidal.

1: Does the OSX Tidal App actually decode MQA, so removing the need for the DAC to handle this and deliver it to the DAC without then needing to decode it? Does the MacMini mean I don't have to worry about decoding MQA as my MacMini does it before it arrives at the DAC meaning I am getting the FULL MQA experience (whatever that means)?

2: If this is not the case, am I correct in thinking that without MQA all I get when I select 'Master' is a normal HiFi (16bit/44mhz) streams, so in simple terms I am getting zero advantage from having Master?

Thanks in advance. Not only does Tidal have TERRIBLE apps, it also has TERRIBLE support. Nice sound mind.

 

[jpaul]

afaik tidal hi fi desktop app will deliver 24/96 w/o an mqa dac, I do on windows; if you are not seeing that have you tried manually selecting dacs sample rate ?

An MQA encoded file can be played back in four ways; with no decoding, software decoding, hardware decoding, and a combined software/hardware decode.

If you play back a 24-bit/192kHz MQA-encoded file using iTunes through a regular DAC (i.e. a non-MQA DAC), you will get a 24/48 file.

If you play back a 24-bit/192kHz MQA-encoded file through an MQA software decoder like Tidal HiFi, Audirvana, or (soon) Roon, and you are using a regular DAC (i.e. a non-MQA DAC), you will get a 24/96 file. A software decoder does not offer the ability to 'unfold' the original file to resolutions higher than 24/96 (or 24/88.2).

If you play back a 24-bit/192kHz MQA-encoded file through an MQA-enabled DAC, you will get a 24-bit/192kHz file. If you are also using a software decoder like Tidal HiFi, Audirvana, or (soon) Roon, you can have the software decoder perform the first 'unfold'.

Not only does Tidal have TERRIBLE apps

no history of what you have listened too, that's my only gripe.
I have used free soundiz for some playlist exchange



edit : ios desktop app, should, indeed be ok

DESKTOP APP ONLY
First up, the high-res ‘Masters’ albums will only play from the desktop version of Tidal, available for Windows 7+ and OS X 10.8+. Playing Tidal on your smart device or through a browser won’t deliver high-res results.

 

[Housey]

edit : ios desktop app, should, indeed be ok

It says iOS device won’t work. I assume you mean OSX?

My DAC can handle 32bit and 384mhz as a maximum and it is manually configure to accept up to that too. Your source answers my point as you suggested..

This will ensure Tidal outputs high-res when it plays a high-res file. Note that the MQA encoding used for these 'Master' files can be 'unfolded' to 24-bit 96kHz (or 88.2kHz) by Tidal's desktop app, but any further expansion (to 192kHz, say) will require an MQA-equipped DAC.

 

[jpaul]

I assume you mean OSX?

yes you're right I meant OSX ....my apple lingo is crap

[ maybe ios does too, had you wanted it, https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38772-tidal-on-ipad-how-can-i-see-what-albums-are-mqa/ ]

if I play back master, and forget to change dac to 96 it plays back, still with M shown, but only 48/44.1, and has presumably, reverted to no decode.

you need the desktop app too and highfi option - yes ? to get access to direct playback option, which sounds better than via mixer, which noticeably degrades audio

 

[Housey]

I have the 19.99 a month top option. It can be set to bypass the OSX Midi settings but these are set right. My question was more around how it works with MQA decoding than bit rate. Think I’m clear now. Ive a Meridian Dac on my PC so get full MQA but into a much less capable Amp and speakers. Both running desktop one OS X the other Win10

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

My understanding is that the "full fat" MQA decoding process consists of:
- The unpacking of the compressed data

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

My understanding of the logical element of MQA is that the "full fat" MQA decoding includes
- The "unfolding" of the package into 24 bit audio (lossy about 20khz, lossless below)
- The application of an MQA filter to account for the DAC in use
If you're using software, chances are that it's completely unaware of the downstream dac, meaning that it will never be able to complete the 2nd step.
It should however mean that you'll get the first "unfolding" and still have something very similar to a standard 24bit file.

Tidal includes software decoding within it's App, and that does include the unfolding.
As for whether the second step is important, well that's down to you.

For me, I'm conscious that the second step MUST by it's design include the conversion to analogue, thus preventing the application of digital correction to account for say your room. As such, I'm very happy to just ignore it.
I've read on the Meridian forums of at least one user who's compared the benefits or room correction and the use of the filter and very much was in favour of the room correction.

 

[Housey]

It sounds lovely as I have it today. I am not convinced adding an MQA certified DAC will improve anything.

 

[jpaul]

If you're using software, chances are that it's completely unaware of the downstream dac

you tell the (desktop) app whether to pass MQA out to the sound device, so are telling it whether you have an MQA dac.

After I recently saw this video on room correction - was going to post it ....I wondered if RC is really worth it
Home Theater Geeks 164: The Science of the Room
given the issues raised of the room tuning not accurately modelling the human 'opaque' head, and the misinterpretation of sound reflections.

 

[8 Pack]

I have the 19.99 a month top option. It can be set to bypass the OSX Midi settings but these are set right. My question was more around how it works with MQA decoding than bit rate. Think I’m clear now. Ive a Meridian Dac on my PC so get full MQA but into a much less capable Amp and speakers. Both running desktop one OS X the other Win10

Which meridian dac do you have. If its an mqa dac let that do the entire unfold and convert to anologue then you have full fat mqa.

I use 818v3 straight into SE loudspeakers... The 818 does first unfold and the speakers finish it up....

 

[8 Pack]

you tell the (desktop) app whether to pass MQA out to the sound device, so are telling it whether you have an MQA dac.

After I recently saw this video on room correction - was going to post it ....I wondered if RC is really worth it
Home Theater Geeks 164: The Science of the Room
given the issues raised of the room tuning not accurately modelling the human 'opaque' head, and the misinterpretation of sound reflections.

The room correction in my g68 is subtle but sounds great.....

 

[9designs2]

I've had Tidal for I guess a few years now, at the Hi-Fi option, I wondered where the MQA stuff was LOL, now I see, desk top App only. I have a ifi Nano DAC, can plug that into a PC and see what it does. Quite why they just don't do 24/96-192 FLAC then it would be more readily available and usable. That band width must a lot lower than say 4K movies etc that you can stream.
Has the MQA debate settled or still continues as to whether it's any good or worth bothering about?

Room correction done properly can be a system saver, as most rooms perform terrible in the lower frequencies. Problem is doing it properly. I use a mix of passive room panels and a touch of electronic correction to finish it off.

 

[jpaul]

at the Hi-Fi option

so you payed the £10 delta for hifi but have just used cd quality flac 16/44, not their higher resolution masters 24/96 ..
from the trial I made they're/latter are what sells it. ... think I tried hotel california first.


Is anyone using their TIDAL subscription in the car via a phone ? or android HU

I assume the 320Kb/s aac would be adequate, given car acoustics and audio component quality, so that would be about 0.14GB a day listening for 1hour,
or do you download (if that's possible with tidal) to avoid 4G connection issues.

what is the experience like ?

I don't currently use a streaming sevice in the car , so am a noob here

 

[9designs2]

The Hi-Fi level is at 16/44.1 requires the higher price subscription, there was no extra charge when MQA was released, which was long after I signed up anyway. Which as I've seen is only accessible via a desktop App, hence I hadn't seen it as I never used it. I use an integrated access to Tidal through my Linn streamers.
Tidal content can be "downloaded" for offline listening on to a mobile device before you leave your home network. I some times do this before going on holiday etc. I find it's better to use the search option to find new music than expect them to know what I may like. Generally you can find most stuff.

 

[8 Pack]

MQA is not only available through the desktop app on tidal.

Certain certified equipment can unpack it and then convert to anologue or room can do the first unfold also.

On my kit 818v3 does first unfold and final stage is done within the 8000SE speakers on conversion to anologue.

 

[9designs2]

Pretty sure Linn doesn't support it or subscribe to it's claims, though could be why I've read some users using Roon on the NAS?

 

[8 Pack]

Roon can only do first unfold of the digital signal.

The second unfold takes place when you convert to anologue and needs mqa dac to output this fully unpacked mqa.

MQA if done correctly is a very good high res source.

 

[LewisStuart]

I use Tidal Hi-Fi with Android Auto, a Mi 8 connected to a Pioneer AVIC-F70DAB,

It shows Master on the phone app but don't know what the actual quality I'm getting will be.

 

[Housey]

I think the fact everyone has a point of view evidences Tidal needs to improve the clarity of its messaging!

 

[jpaul]

I think the final unfold is the controversial point, and the merit/sq of having the final unfold ... they wanted to lock in sales of mqa dacs;
it's abit like aptx, although I am now more sympathetic towards aptx than aac, since I learned it takes much less battery to encode aptx, so maybe a good compromise.

Tidal do not reveal the origin of the MQA sources , are some of them upscaled/frauds; I frequently use stevehoffman for listening recommendations
where folks recommend particular versions, but (like others) tidal do not clearly say what you are getting.
(need to do a bit comparison between tidal 'versions')

I use Tidal Hi-Fi with Android Auto

Thanks, so can you stream (via 4g) flac to your car ?
maybe you have an inbuilt eg audi connect, vehicle SIM. system though, so that signal is better quality.


Does android-auto/tidal have provision for either buffering a lot of data, or handing over to local music if the signal drops.