Time to sort my speaker cabling out...

Bes

Bes

Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
7,318
Location
Melbourne
So I have got a carpenter to make me a hi- fi stand (In progress), but will be moving my amps, etc around when it is finally ready.

What I need to do now is sort out some longer runs of speaker cabling.

Currently I have Chord Rumour coming off the Audiolab 8000S, and Chord Carnival coming off the 8000P into my speakers in a Bi- Amp config. (Mismatch was due to me being given both sets gratis!!) The sound is good, but I think it is a little too bright/crashy at the top- end.

I have heard that Cat5e cabling will exhibit qualities like that of Chord stuff (i.e. erring towards bright)... is this true? If so, I need something a bit more 'neutral'.

Should I be looking at Van Damme Blue or something?

Thanks
 
Sorry to but in, but cable like most electrical components is rated for voltage, not current. So 13A mains cable and 5A mains cable should still be rated at 240V.

You can work out the rating required using Ohms Law:
P=VI (Power = Voltage*Current)
and V=IR (Voltage = Current*Impedance)

Where the power is the power output from your amp and the impedance is that of your speakers.
 
Cat5 for speaker cable is no good, it can't handle the current.

Just use 13A mains cable.

Irrelevant of the top part being tripe, the advice of using 13A mains cable is just excellent advice :)

Cable is cable is cable, if it's too bright and crashy it's because you've got a system that's too bright and crashy.
 
Nope- I could hear a difference between the Chord Rumour and Carnival when it was just the 8000S.
 
No, you just thought you could hear a difference as you were changing the cables so assumed there must be a difference.


Just go down to your local B&Q and buy a reel of mains cable.
 
Why is there such a huge market for all types of speaker cable with all different materials for the wires then?
 
Because people are dumb enough to think there is a difference! And people are dumb enough to pay for things like "Vibration damping Silicone outer jacket"
You really think that the signal level on a cable is really going to be enough to need vibration damping silicone jackets?

All in all, general consumers know little to nothing and think "oooh, they've added stuff that benefits me, it's £80 for 1metre of cable, it must be amazing" when all they've done is unwound a coathanger and put a sheath on it.


Short answer: Dumb idiots will pay for it.
 
There IS a difference in cable, but at the end of the day it comes down to cable core diameter, material and shielding. Thats it.

None is worse than any other, assuming its properly shielded, it just sounds different. Thus, go with whichever you think sounds best.

ie if its sheilded 8mm2 copper cable, it doesnt matter if it was used for wiring your house originally, nor if its nordost super duper rip off with a cotton sheath cable.
 
http://sound.westhost.com/cables-p2.htm#spkr-leads

read it. all of it.

Difficult Loads
While it is true that reasonable quality twin cables (figure eight or zip cord) are adequate for nominal 8 ohm loads over short distances, there are a number of popular loudspeakers that are anything but nominal at high frequencies.

Two that a reader advised me about are the AR11 and the Quad ESL (old model). Both of these drop below 2 ohms in the treble frequencies. The AR bottoming out at 5kHz and the Quad at 18Khz (although anything from 15kHz to 18kHz is common). The dips are fairly sharp and so the load impedance is highly capacitive on the way down and inductive on the way up. The frequencies are high enough to not worry good amplifiers but what about the response at these dip frequencies?

Twin wire cables all have significant inductance which increases in proportion to length. With 10 amp rated twin flex over only 5 metres the response was down by 2.5 dB into one Quad ESL at 18 Khz, and 3.5 dB into the other speaker which had 8 metres. This was audible and unacceptable.

The only way to reduce cable linear inductance is to make the two wires talk to each other. Running in close parallel is a start, tight twisting is better but only by using multiple wires for each and interweaving can you really get the inductance down. Several cable makers have done this and sell them as low impedance cables, which is exactly what they are. There are several different cables that use this method, and twin coaxial cable is also used to achieve a similar result.

One construction uses two groups of 72 strands of enamelled wire plaited around a solid plastic core. Using these cables with difficult loads, the droop at either 5 or 18 kHz disappeared and the sound was distinctly better. There would be virtually no other way to solve the problem short of mono amplifiers sited next to each loudspeaker.

One (potentially major) drawback ocurs if you own certain amplifiers that are unstable with capacitive loads. Typical multiple twisted pair cable has about 9nF per metre of capacitance with little resistance or inductance, which causes many amplifiers to go into parasitic oscillation. The fix is simple, wind twelve turns of wire around a pen and put it in series with the beginning of the cable. This tiny coil has far less inductance than even one metre of twin flex.

This description of the possible issues with speaker cables is the first I have seen that makes some sense from a technical perspective. There is sufficient evidence from my own measurements and those of many writers that there are indeed some detectable (and measurable) differences. With this in mind, and wanting to provide all the information I can, I have included this information - and this is the one area where properly sized and well made cables really does make a difference. If you own speakers that present a highly capacitive load, or have deep "notches" in the impedance curve, I would take this information seriously.

to say that cables dont make a difference is incorrect. this is still analogue we are dealing with remember. same rules apply to analogue signal leads. that said, there's a difference between using the correct cable and just spending money on snake oil.
 
Last edited:
If you want to try a cable then get some enammled copper wire for about 7 quid, scrape off the enamel at either end and try it as a speaker cable. Il be trying this out with 16AWG cable just to see how good it sounds.

this cable debate is a long running stalemate, scientists and engineers stating there are no technical documents showing 'perceived audiable differences', which obviously can't be done, then people who believe there is a difference but would go DIY and test a few out, then the cable lovers who swear being able to tell the difference between different chord etc cables.

Im in the second group, but whatever write up you do, and however good you think your testing is, there will always be people there to disprove everything and try to make you look stupid.

If I spend 10quid on parts for my speaker cable and it sounds better, then great, a perceived difference is better than no difference.

I have heard that Cat5e cabling will exhibit qualities like that of Chord stuff (i.e. erring towards bright)... is this true? If so, I need something a bit more 'neutral'.

Exactly, other people have heard a difference and now when you try it, you will no doubt be able to tell a difference because your mind expects it. If you did a double blind test then im pretty sure that you won't have a clue about the different cables. Anyhow, people spend too much time on this crap, Im off to enjoy some music, the real reason for having this hobby :D
 
I think some of you are missing the point here.

I agree it is a total waste of money spunking silly sums on speaker wire.... The Chord stuff isn't particularly expensive, but is still more than I would deem worth paying. That is why I am looking DIY or the relatively inexpensive Van Damme Blue or something. My runs of Chord simply are not long enough for the new layout I will have in my room, so need to go regardless.

It is widely documented that Van Damme Blue for instance will make your setup sound different to something like Chord, whether or not this is true, I don't know- I can only go off the information I have.

All I really want is the answer to this one question:

Do cables with a different material composition in the core of the wire sound different? as this is why I am lead to believe Chord sounds different from Van Damme Blue etc (Again I have only listened to Chord, so cannot say this is a fact).
 
Have done James...

A double-blind test carried out by an Australian electronics magazine many years ago found that most listeners thought that the really thin figure-8 type speaker cable had better bass than all the more expensive ones. Treble response was generally thought better using a heavy duty 3-core mains cable.

Ok so this kind of proves what I was saying about certain cables producing more treble response- which I don't necessarily want...
 
lol ironically, they arent really producing more, its just that other cables might be producing less. ive heard no major differences in any cables ive tried on mine, so im not really the person to recommend a particular cable to you.

saying that, id imaging much longer runs of the chord cable would bring that harshness down by a fair amount anyway. might be expensive to find out it doesnt though. are your speakers toed in at all? you could try toeing them out a little, might reduce the harshness. thats something you can experiment with without cost lol
 
Sorry to but in, but cable like most electrical components is rated for voltage, not current. So 13A mains cable and 5A mains cable should still be rated at 240V.

Complete rubbish I'm afraid. Cables are rated on current, so thicker cables can carry more current. It all depends on how loud you want it. Thinner cables may not handle the current flowing when you wind the wick up.

e.g. (not quite accurate due to frequency mix etc, but order of magnitude...)

Let's assume an amp pushes out maximum of 100W. So let's say half volume, roughly 50W. let's say the speakers are 8Ohm.

Good old school formula. V=IR and P=VI. So I^2=P/R. So in the example, I^2=50/8. I=2.5Amps. So even the thinnest mains cable would be fine for everyday use from a current point of view...
 
Back
Top Bottom