Don
Where you heading?
Too white, Too Straight.
- Thread starter LabR@t
- Start date
That's the part that the court found against. Equally qualified has to mean equally scored, not both passed the arbitrary 'minimum standard' Mark.
Why?
The whole point of affirmative action is to enable people to get into positions that they would not otherwise be able achieve.
The Theory, is that "If you only give these disadvantaged Black kids a chance at a good school/college/career they will quickly catch up and be just as good as anybody else"
In practice however no School/Collage/employer is going to want to recruit people under an AA scheme only to fail/dismiss them a couple of years later because they cannot keep up the pace. It would just be just too embarrassing.
There is a real risk to my mind that at any "Grading point" people on AA schemes who are struggling will get bumped up a grade/promotion/whatever because at that time the person doing the grading will not want to face the hassle of failing the individual concerned. Preferring instead to kick the ball sideways into somebody elses court and make it somebody elses problem.
while I am sure that some people, most even, might actually do very well as a consequence of AA.
(Anybody remember the program where some Black inner city lads were sent to Harrow or somewhere, They actually did very well, But it was a bit Pygmalion, what happened to them later when they went back home I dont know)
But there is a risk that there will be some who will have been over-graded and over-promoted all through there lives.
As for medicine.
One of the most important thing is Language. English is an easy language to learn but a very hard one to master. As regards "Forign" doctors, unless he is a "House", I want one who I can understand and who can understand me, otherwise things are likley to end badly!
I understand the problems with AA and I don't advocate AA or quotas, whether it comes to race or sex or anything else.
The issue I have with your position is the suggestion that you'd rather have an Indian/Chinese doctor over a black doctor, especially as you seem to suggest that medical ability is a hereditary trait.
For instance, I'd rather have a black British doctor, trained in the UK, over an Indian or Chinese doctor trained in India or China exactly because of things like the language barrier.*
I would also be surprised if a black British doctor managed to get all the way through medical school to become a GP or specialist purely on the basis of AA.
If you meant "I'd rather have a doctor trained in India or China over a doctor trained in Somalia" I could maybe see your point, but I'd be surprised if a Somalian doctor was being promoted over other doctors in the UK because of AA — they would quickly fall down on the 'equal qualification' aspect.
*In reality, I'd rather have the person most qualified for the job regardless of colour/gender/sexual orientation. If the Chinese doctor was the best in the world at curing my ailment, I wouldn't care where he/she was from or what language they spoke.
For a while at work they wanted more "female leaders", so they got their women in to leadership posts. It was a total disaster and they spent about 3 years arguing and not agreeing on anything. We pretty much ignored them and did our own thing to keep everything ticking over. Eventually they left or moved on to other things.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 21 Jun 2006
- Posts
- 38,372
I don't think the police have ever been worried about maintaining any standard tbh. They are a joke in this country.
Unless you hand them every piece of evidence for a conviction they will let things just go. They don't have time to work any cases just turn up to calls write them up and file them. They never get a second look in again.
They wern't always like that though, we used to have a very good police force. Maybe the best.
But even if you hand them all the leads they can't be bothered. A friend had a laptop stolen which was in his car that got stolen. He found it on ebay, had a photo showing the serial number AND the seller's address. An easy win and they still did nothing, probably should have told them the guy insulted Islam or something...
Caporegime
- Joined
- 21 Jun 2006
- Posts
- 38,372
Was that when they were beating innocent coloured people? This country hasn't done anything great in the past.
Soldato
Unless we get some fundamental change in this country, give it 10 years it so and or will be a nightmare for anyone that is white and/or out spoken.
Soldato
No, what I mean is if people had of stood up against what was happening. What's more, the socialist/communist system is an utter failure. It sounds wonderful, evokes a sense of community, progress, well-being a prosperity to come. The issue is the communist system particularly does not allow private property and therefore as Mises correctly points out it would fail.
Socialist systems operate very much the same model. The problem is with socialism that eventually you run out of other peoples money. That's when things get nasty and it does happen.
Back to the point. Imagine if the 25-45million who died in Stalins USSR had combined? Imagine these numbers added to the tens of millions more who were condemned to years of a slow starvation, death and torture at the hands of the state. Thus lies the issue that statism under an all encompassing system I.e. Socialism brooks no dissent and that is where we tie back into your response.
Soldato
Ever notice that the diversity is always very carefully highlighted to encompass a set figure decided by the people you don't want to decide it?
As an example:
If I went for a job in London as a minority (aka white) they would say they mean across the UK to flip the discriminatory element. Well who says you are in majority if you are from that specific area and who are they to claim you are not a minority (despite clearly being one) and changing the goal posts.
It seems the left decides what demarcates their objectives and where. Engineers
... Too many men so issue grants and financial support to the tune of thousands to get more women involved. They decide that field... Can you question why they don't do the same to nursing? Sure you can, but they don't ram it down your throat. STEM fields under assault. Nobody bats an eye lid.
Like yourself on a job front (public), I had considered a firefighter. My dad knows/knew a firefighter at the same station who had remarked tell him not bother as they are wanting black or women candidates. Didn't bother. This was if memory serves in 2006 time? Seems about right.
The biggest minority in the world is the individual.
Associate
- Joined
- 3 Feb 2019
- Posts
- 747
The logical point of singularity for intersectionality
I was once lecturered once by a very middle class white woman who said that as a white man I enjoyed unearned privilege and any achievement I had was due to unfair advantage.
When I told her that my dad had lived in abject poverty in a single parent family in the 50s, to the point he had to approach a local Christian group for shoes as a 9 year old, and that he excelled due to his work ethic and love of learning, she still maintained I was still an oppressor.
I walked away from that discussion.
Soldato
The fire fighter thing actually really ticks me off, in a life or death situation where fire fighters enter a blazing property and need to carry people to safety, how on earth is the average women going to carry an adult, let alone a grown man. Sure I know there are women that are equally as strong if not stronger than a man, but they are a very small percentage, where as a majority of men would be able to manage just fine.
It's nothing to do with "sexism", its biology and science. There are dozens of careers that are predominantly done by men, they tend to be dangerous jobs like oil rig workers, people working with high voltage electricity etc. There is a reason why most work related deaths are men, because women don't want to do those jobs. It's also a reason for the so called "gender pay gap" which is complete and utter nonsense.
It's nothing to do with "sexism", its biology and science. There are dozens of careers that are predominantly done by men, they tend to be dangerous jobs like oil rig workers, people working with high voltage electricity etc. There is a reason why most work related deaths are men, because women don't want to do those jobs. It's also a reason for the so called "gender pay gap" which is complete and utter nonsense.
Soldato
By the time the Bolsheviks were in charge, the time for effective resistance had passed. It's all very well saying there were tens of millions of people who should have resisted, but how exactly does one organise when the government has an iron grip on all means of communication, and has agents and true-believers among the population who will report your dissent to the authorities? The soviet government needed slave labour for their gulags, and while they didn't really need a reason to send you there, having an excuse didn't hurt.
Soldato
I quite agree. It was more a rhetorical pr thought exercise.
Human ingenuity is a marvel. Those who undermined the system were am enemy all the more pernicious
The stoolies. I quite agree they were fighting an uphill battle.
The entire Soviet Union was held up because of slave labour. At any given time around 1/8 people were in gulag. Scary stuff.
Indeed and his situation was far from unique. It was probably more the norm in many a neighbourhood or town in that era. Speaking with my grandad (82), he says we had it very hard. Lotta kids had no clothes or just something cover them. Clothes that didn't fit. Rationing (he can still remember his ID card number from the war).
These people need more challenging. I would be tempted to ask if she in her supercilious and abstruse judgement has ever read an Orwell book? Namely Road to Wigan Pier or Down and Out. If she had read it she would be clearly none-the-wiser as to the clearly told story.
I've had the gender pay gap raised at work to me. Discussion didn't last long.
Well it is good that the case was won, trying to inflate numbers artificially by recruiting sub par candidates is rather sill. I don't think it is particularly fair that positive discrimination is allowed in cases where they can fudge it a bit/where candidates are a bit closer together.
Of course in this case it was perhaps a bit more clear cut - both the comment from the interviewer that it was "refreshing to meet someone as well prepared as yourself" and the fact they claim to be unable to order 127 candidates even though they presumably have quite a few objective means of assessment.
Not sure why that is weird, the police and the armed forces will tend to want to recruit graduates - plenty of army officers and senior police officers have been to university.
Of course in this case it was perhaps a bit more clear cut - both the comment from the interviewer that it was "refreshing to meet someone as well prepared as yourself" and the fact they claim to be unable to order 127 candidates even though they presumably have quite a few objective means of assessment.
Not sure why that is weird, the police and the armed forces will tend to want to recruit graduates - plenty of army officers and senior police officers have been to university.
Caporegime
It's weird because he has no qualifications relevant to police work. So if that was his dream job, why didn't he study something connected to policing?
We are told that black and Asian children born in this country are exactly the same as white natives. Then we see increasingly stories like this which give a completely different message. We are are told there are "communities" that are not like us and so need special treatment?
It must be one or the other, we are either all the same or we are not.
It seems to me we are all the same until you hit a tipping point in numbers and then people revert back to their group identity.
We see this in Spain where Brits have their own enclaves, in America with majority Hispanic or black areas. The exceptions to the rule are always pointed out as proof multiculturalism works but this is not the majority situation as far as i can see.
I feel like I am naive it seems so obvious a child could understand this but it's like the media and government just ignore it and we get in peculiar situations like this story. I feel like this is all I ever say on here these days but I just find it odd and cannot really see any counter arguments.
Other than to wipe peoples history and heritage so they have no clue where they came from I don't see how you stop group identity.
It must be one or the other, we are either all the same or we are not.
It seems to me we are all the same until you hit a tipping point in numbers and then people revert back to their group identity.
We see this in Spain where Brits have their own enclaves, in America with majority Hispanic or black areas. The exceptions to the rule are always pointed out as proof multiculturalism works but this is not the majority situation as far as i can see.
I feel like I am naive it seems so obvious a child could understand this but it's like the media and government just ignore it and we get in peculiar situations like this story. I feel like this is all I ever say on here these days but I just find it odd and cannot really see any counter arguments.
Other than to wipe peoples history and heritage so they have no clue where they came from I don't see how you stop group identity.
Soldato
Like the BBC typical Roman family kids sketch from not too long ago?
*awaits the slew of responses trying to advocate the roman black legions...
*awaits the slew of responses trying to advocate the roman black legions...
Soldato
I've personally worked at two employers who would shamelessly throw out all applications from people with foreign names. Both quite small businesses (6 and 12 employees respectively). I doubt they're unique.
Not sure whether or not quotas etc are the answer to correct for this unfairness, but I'd be interested in what people think we should do about it. There seems to be a significant number who get very upset when a white dude gets this treatment.
Not sure whether or not quotas etc are the answer to correct for this unfairness, but I'd be interested in what people think we should do about it. There seems to be a significant number who get very upset when a white dude gets this treatment.