Tower block fire - london

Raz said:
While it's difficult to counter such a strong argument, I think members of the local community were also saying the same.
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What have 'the authorities' got to gain by covering it up? There's already a huge loss of life.
Now think what they have to lose if there has been a bigger loss of life and they cover it up.
 
Dis86 said:
What have 'the authorities' got to gain by covering it up? There's already a huge loss of life.
Now think what they have to lose if there has been a bigger loss of life and they cover it up.
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Although I don't think they're covering anything up, this incident has caused people to think about the divide between classes/rich and the poor and how politics has played a part in certain decision. The PM is obviously taking this seriously and Labour are using this as an example of how Tories are ( money over lives etc)
 
Dis86 said:
We already know that to be the case as it looks like it was full of illegal immigrants.
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Then there's no record of how many people were actually in the building and the death count may well be much higher. Perhaps they're hoping to identify those they had records of first...
 
Jokester said:
How do you know that?
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Multiple eye witness accounts. Testimony to those involved that they're afraid to come forward for help because they're worried that their immigration status will get them removed.
On top of this some of the victims who have been identified are known to be visitors so won't count to the occupancy limit.
 
Raz said:
Then there's no record of how many people were actually in the building and the death count may well be much higher. Perhaps they're hoping to identify those they had records of first...
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That's almost certainly what they will be doing. It's hard to identify someone when you don't know who they are and they shouldn't be there. We've all no doubt read the accounts of the disappearing Filipinos.
 
Raz said:
Although I don't think they're covering anything up, this incident has caused people to think about the divide between classes/rich and the poor and how politics has played a part in certain decision. The PM is obviously taking this seriously and Labour are using this as an example of how Tories are ( money over lives etc)
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Which is frankly a load of rubbish considering that pretty much every tower block so far tested has also failed and an awful lot of them are in Labour controlled councils.

Anyone that is trying to make political capital out of this probably needs to have a bit of a think really.
 
RDM said:
Which is frankly a load of rubbish considering that pretty much every tower block so far tested has also failed and an awful lot of them are in Labour controlled councils.

Anyone that is trying to make political capital out of this probably needs to have a bit of a think really.
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David Lammy's comments was about bringing people responsible for the Grenfell disaster to justice. Not surprisingly really when you consider the architects who were responsible to the Grenfell refurbishment had their website pulled soon after the fire. Hardly the behaviour of someone who has nothing to hide, is it now? David Lammy was concerned that vital documents could be shredded by the bodies involved in the refurbishment of Grenfell Tower. This is not exactly unreasonable fears under the circumstances. Particularly as Lammy suggested the police was taking its time over a criminal investigation.

Naturally, Labour is trying to make political capital out of this. But in my mind, the fundamental question was did the Kensington and Chelsea had a meaningful discussion with the residents over the refurbishment of Grenfell Tower? The answer is no and I strongly suspect local authorities, irrespective of political affiliation, never have a meaningful engagement with their residents either. In other words, residents' concerns was trumped by the councils' poorly thoughtless ideas. The Grenfell Tower fire was entirely preventable if K&C council had listened to the concerns of the residents in the first place. It is my view that corporate manslaughter charges should be issued if the Grenfell residents were denied a meaningful conversation over their concerns about various fire risks.
 
RDM said:
Which is frankly a load of rubbish considering that pretty much every tower block so far tested has also failed and an awful lot of them are in Labour controlled councils.

Anyone that is trying to make political capital out of this probably needs to have a bit of a think really.
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A source on that would be useful?
 
Top_gun said:
David Lammy's comments was about bringing people responsible for the Grenfell disaster to justice. Not surprisingly really when you consider the architects who were responsible to the Grenfell refurbishment had their website pulled soon after the fire. Hardly the behaviour of someone who has nothing to hide, is it now? David Lammy was concerned that vital documents could be shredded by the bodies involved in the refurbishment of Grenfell Tower. This is not exactly unreasonable fears under the circumstances. Particularly as Lammy suggested the police was taking its time over a criminal investigation.

Naturally, Labour is trying to make political capital out of this. But in my mind, the fundamental question was did the Kensington and Chelsea had a meaningful discussion with the residents over the refurbishment of Grenfell Tower? The answer is no and I strongly suspect local authorities, irrespective of political affiliation, never have a meaningful engagement with their residents either. In other words, residents' concerns was trumped by the councils' poorly thoughtless ideas. The Grenfell Tower fire was entirely preventable if K&C council had listened to the concerns of the residents in the first place. It is my view that corporate manslaughter charges should be issued if the Grenfell residents were denied a meaningful conversation over their concerns about various fire risks.
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I think what's damning is the fact the residents campaigned for years that there were safety issues. Were they ignored? Did anyone bother to look into the issues raised? Who decided that everything was okay and there was nothing that needed to be revised in the block? Those people and policies are just as culpable as those that put the cladding on.
 
Steampunk said:
I think what's damning is the fact the residents campaigned for years that there were safety issues. Were they ignored? Did anyone bother to look into the issues raised? Who decided that everything was okay and there was nothing that needed to be revised in the block? Those people and policies are just as culpable as those that put the cladding on.
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Exactly, that was the point I was trying to make but you are more succinct about it.

Perhaps this man, Rock Feilding-Mellen, should be in the dock as a starting point.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...helsea-borough-council-cladding-a7806981.html
 
Here's a great quote from TommyTrout who posted this on the comments section of the Daily Express.

Between this and the "Other" recent chaos that has been going on, the one common denominator is, we are being administrated and governed by completely useless amateurs of ALL hues.

I would not trust them to run the proverbial Brewery Party, let alone a Country, City, or Village Fete. The Majority are power hungry narcissists who have one thing in mind...themselves and what they can get out off it. As for the Grenfell Tower incident, just watch and mark my words. We will soon to be in the phase of: Search for the Guilty, to be followed by Punishment of the Innocent, which will end up with some small firms supply clerk misreading the purchase order and being blamed.
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