Tradesmen paid by the hour - lunch chargeable?

Soldato
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Currently employing the services of a lime plasterer and we had some days work done last week which was insulating and boarding ahead of plastering in a few weeks. Agreed rate is £40/hr (+VAT), which is steep, but the guy worked on a previous phase for us (contracted via carpenter so issue of pay didn't come up before) and they did a great job and obviously know the house now. And finding other good lime plasterers at less than a years lead time is like hen's teeth.

I've quibbled on a couple of days hours' tally because they don't add up to me, and I mentioned the time on site as a maximum - i.e. before any lunch break - compared to what was billed, and the time billed was 3 hours more than being on site. I mentioned too that maybe 30 minutes should come off for lunch as well as the other time not on site.

Firstly he's said they (2 guys this is) needed to collect fixings and consumables - which is sort of fine but on hourly rate I'd wish for a very standard job like this they'd have that to hand.
But secondly he's said that I'm the first person in 20 years that has 'tried to knock time off for lunch'. I am paid by the hour myself, I work a professional office job but as a contractor, and if I am paid for 8 hours in a day, I work for 8 hours. However long I take for lunch is up to me, but is certainly not billable. In my mind that's really clear.

If he was a jobbing handyman charging £200 as a day rate or whatever, I wouldn't quibble anything hours related, so long as it seems a day's work has been done. But at £40/hr + VAT - and this is just insulating and boarding at this point, hardly highly skilled stuff - am I not entitled to think that I should only be paying for time actually spent working? - separately I know tea breaks are fine to be taken while on the clock, no issue with that. I am quite sure in myself here, but apparently that puts me at odds with every other client he's ever had in 20 years.

Any input, especially from tradies who charge by the hour would be helpful.
 
This is why sometimes looking at and comparing rates doesn't work. They should use their rates internally and quote you a figure for the job so no one gets any surprises?
 
Can see both sides.

Ultimately, you mentioned some positives, you know his work is good, you know he was available and fit you in.

If hes close to finishing up, personally id just eat the cost on the basis that really, in the grand scheme of the project 200 quid over a week isnt that much money for a quality tradesman.

But as Hutchy said, this is why usually I ask for a cost for the whole job rather than hourly.
 
He said he flat out doesn't do fixed prices as he finds it too restrictive, too often you have scope deviations that hold up work while you either wait for someone else to come and do something that needs sorting or agree how much extra for him to charge to sort it instead, and things like that. While I would ideally prefer to know the price of the job beforehand, I also like the idea of only paying for the time you get. So I was happy to go with hourly rate.

So thanks for suggestion for future, but it won't help on this topic to suggest that a fixed price is easier to manage.
 
Terms should have been agreed before work started. Now you've put yourself on the back foot, chalk it up to experience for next time.
 
Would you rather he did a worse job as he didn't have a break and was on the clock? With something like plastering it's a bit of an art and I'd just be thankful you have a good one
 
Terms should have been agreed before work started. Now you've put yourself on the back foot, chalk it up to experience for next time.
Yep this is thoroughly the case, just wondering in principle if he's shafting me or it's the norm really.

In essence I'm just going to have to ask him to not round up carelessly as I don't have the budget of his usual clients. But that's not really his problem, and we both know he has me by the balls given the lack of alternatives.

Would you rather he did a worse job as he didn't have a break and was on the clock? With something like plastering it's a bit of an art and I'd just be thankful you have a good one
I don't really recognise this, I'm not saying don't have lunch. I'm saying I don't want to pay £48/hr for lunch, especially while every experience I've had previously, and that the clear implication to me of quoting an hourly rate is that lunch isn't paid.
 
Yep this is thoroughly the case, just wondering in principle if he's shafting me or it's the norm really.

In essence I'm just going to have to ask him to not round up carelessly as I don't have the budget of his usual clients. But that's not really his problem, and we both know he has me by the balls given the lack of alternatives.


I don't really recognise this, I'm not saying don't have lunch. I'm saying I don't want to pay £48/hr for lunch, especially while every experience I've had previously, and that the clear implication to me of quoting an hourly rate is that lunch isn't paid.
I think with any building work you have to accept you're going to get shafted to some degree.
 
I think with any building work you have to accept you're going to get shafted to some degree.
:cry: :cry: too true.

Tbh OP I think it is a **** take. He is a contractor so you'd expect to pay hours worked, and that rate include a provision for holiday, break times, sick leave etc. However if its sub £200 and you are happy with the work, I'd probably eat it.
 
He's taking the mickey. Breaks, collection, travel etc. are all things that should be factored in to it.
 
IME plasterers need to have a load of jobs on the go at the same time as the amount of time waiting for things to dry is significant.

That's fair enough, as long as they don't charge everyone for travel between the various jobs or charge the other jobs as "buying materials" time. Why should OP have to pay for that?
 
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IME plasterers need to have a load of jobs on the go at the same time as the amount of time waiting for things to dry is significant.
Should be factored into his price then. If out of 8 hours in a day, I am only "billable" for 5 and the rest in inbetween time, I need to make sure the hourly charge for those 5 covers the full day worked. Not directly bill a Customer for all 8.
 
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Before my dad retired a few years back he would have done it for £13 an hour and done a good job
lol i was thinking the same thing... my dad was awful at pricing jobs, and add to that, if he got it wrong in his favour he used to drop his fee (but not the other way around).

he also charged £15 an hr... but didnt work by the hour unless the customer wanted it that way.......... generally, that was just the cost he put into his estimates. I dont know about lunch breaks but i do know he factored in time at home loading his van, but not unloading it at night and he charged for 1 way of the journey.................. so in his estimates / or for billing he would charge from the moment he started loading his van in a morning, including the journey to the site, but stopped charging the moment he left the site in an evening.

He could have made much more money, mind you, my folks lived the lifestyle they wanted so i guess it was fine for them and it meant he always had work and got to pick and choose the jobs as well. swings and roundabouts i guess.

would have been a different story had he of had a huge mortgage on his house to pay however.
 
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Should be factored into his price then. If out of 8 hours in a day, I am only "billable" for 5 and the rest in inbetween time, I need to make sure the hourly charge for those 5 covers the full day worked. Not directly bill a Customer for all 8.
I guess the issue is if they're all doing it then he would not get work due to being "more expensive" on paper
 
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