Trouble getting a reference!

[roxyroo92]

I started my new job 3 weeks ago and it’s going really well however when I first gave my 2 references they failed to tell me they both have to be professional ones. My previous employer gave there’s no problem but I’m having a job getting one from the job before them. I’ve messaged my old manager twice now and she’s just ignored them, the other girl no longer works with them so I will have to go to the owner who I know full well will make if so difficult. Other than that my previous employers either no longer exist (gone into administration) or I’m no longer in contact with them and I doubt they’ll even remember me as during 2020 I had a few temp jobs!

I have a character reference so do you think this will be okay to give as it’s becoming impossible at the moment to get any response! Never had this problem before and it’s baffling me as to why something so simple is proving impossible!!!

Note: I’m still in training at the moment but I’ve been payed and signed all the forms including contract (Nothing in there states references)

Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[Josh]

Yeah I had to get security vetting clearance for a Govt role, x2 of the 4 previous employers went into administration before I started and I needed 10 years of prior roles for the vetting process.

I explained this to the vetting team and they were fine with it. It was 2008 after all, a lot of jobs went bang during that time!

 

[MichaelAwkward]

Have you tried contacting the HR department directly rather than your old manager? They should be able to give a basic reference. Some companies refer all references to HR rather than individual managers giving them anyway since it’s usually company policy just to provide the basics.

I was fortunate with my new job that the hiring manager knows me already so no references required.

 

[roxyroo92]

Have you tried contacting the HR department directly rather than your old manager? They should be able to give a basic reference. Some companies refer all references to HR rather than individual managers giving them anyway since it’s usually company policy just to provide the basics.

I was fortunate with my new job that the hiring manager knows me already so no references required.

They don’t have an hr department which has been another problem.

 

[Begbie]

Id they've already employed you, do they even care?

Normally this happens before your start date, doesn't it?

 

[roxyroo92]

Yeah I had to get security vetting clearance for a Govt role, x2 of the 4 previous employers went into administration before I started and I needed 10 years of prior roles for the vetting process.

I explained this to the vetting team and they were fine with it. It was 2008 after all, a lot of jobs went bang during that time!

Mine is similar with the vetting however that’s been really simple which you’d think it would be the other way around!

 

[Skynet5]

I guess there maybe differences… but if you provide the reference as the company, rather than named individual, then you’ve done your bit. shouldn’t the new place be doing the run around?

If you’re in the job perhaps just explain the issue and say you’ve proactively got a character reference instead due to this challenge.

I’ll never forget the DV process. That’s a tough process.

 

[roxyroo92]

Id they've already employed you, do they even care?

Normally this happens before your start date, doesn't it?

That’s what I thought but they seem to want two!

 

[dowie]

My previous employer gave there’s no problem but I’m having a job getting one from the job before them. I’ve messaged my old manager twice now and she’s just ignored them, the other girl no longer works with them so I will have to go to the owner who I know full well will make if so difficult.

It's not really your problem and it sounds like that employer is likely to only confirm dates of employment at best anyway which you could confirm via payslips, P45, contract of employment etc.

So you've given them two references, they've got one successfully and you're chasing round re: the other. They're not legally obligated to provide anything and if there isn't an HR dept then...

Also, it's not like you can hop in a time machine and go get another employer for that time period either - that's where you worked, they're being awkward and that's the deal.

Rather than having to faff about with anything yourself put the onus back on your current HR - "OK so we've got one reference, I'm getting no joy out of my other employer what would you like as an alternative reference?" and let them tell you. There isn't much more you can do if that employer isn't playing ball and so the HR people who have mandated the box-ticking exercise need to come up with a different way for your to tick the boxes.

 

[Nasher]

Usually it's easier to just use a friend who worked there

My previous place had no real HR, so I'm probably going to run in to the same issue as I should be starting a new job soon.

I’ll never forget the DV process. That’s a tough process.

Yea, never again. When I was there a lot of new hires ended up withdrawing and going to other jobs, because they got fed up of waiting to clearance to come through. It was really hard to hire people and get them cleared, which is why defence contractors get paid so much. The demand is very high especially if you have a DV.

I left that sector and am taking up a "normal" job because I got fed up of maintaining it. It's fine if you are mostly a sit at home potato, but if you actually want a personal life it's a real headache.

 

[dowie]

Usually it's easier to just use a friend who worked there

True - or even just someone who used to work there and now works elsewhere.

So long as they can email the HR admin bod from a company work address and be like "I worked with Roxy at blah ltd and they're a good egg" then job done perhaps.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Your employer is being awkward if you've explained the situation to them as you have here, hopefully this attitude is not widespread throughout the company.

If they were that concerned, they'd have done their due diligence before letting you sign the contract.

 

[Nasher]

True - or even just someone who used to work there and now works elsewhere.

So long as they can email the HR admin bod from a company work address and be like "I worked with Roxy at blah ltd and they're a good egg" then job done perhaps.

TBH most of the time they don't even seem to bother contacting references. The only mine have been contacted was when I was getting vetted. But they don't really care about the job, they do it as part of their background checks.

 

[dowie]

If they were that concerned, they'd have done their due diligence before letting you sign the contract.

No, that would be backward in any number of well-paid or competitive areas.

You can't start asking people's current employers for a reference before they've even handed in their notice and people aren't going to hand in their notice unless they've actually got a firm offer/contract of employment to read (and possibly have checked by an employment solicitor too).

What you do is make the offer/contract conditional on satisfactory references - that way they can sign and hand their notice in but also if something iffy comes up then you've got legit reasons to renege.

 

[Ayahuasca]

No, that would be backward in any number of well-paid or competitive areas.

Has the OP confirmed they’re in a well paid or competitive area?

They also say in the initial post that nothing in their contract mentions references so unlikely to be a contract that’s conditional on those.

I’m talking about their situation, well aware that it should be done the way you’ve described in many other instances.

 

[koolpc]

I wonder how many employers actually request references from previous employers listed on an application form. I bet many dont bother...

 

[dowie]

I’m talking about their situation, well aware that it should be done the way you’ve described in many other instances.

Well in their situation it seems to be the normal situation too - i.e. they send the contract to sign before checking references.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Well in their situation it seems to be the normal situation too - i.e. they send the contract to sign before checking references.

Unlikely as OP stated there’s no mention in the contract or other paperwork of it being conditional on satisfactory references.

 

[dowie]

Unlikely as OP stated there’s no mention in the contract or other paperwork of it being conditional on satisfactory references.

It's unlikely that a contract would - the contract usually covers the conditions of the ongoing employment not the preliminary stuff they need to cover at the start of it.

It would typically be in an offer letter or email communicating that they're extending an offer.

But the bottom line is that they're asking for references and that's fairly normal, I'm not really sure why you're acting as if it isn't standard or that checking before he signed the contract is something they should have done.

If OP can't get one from the old employer then he needs to talk to HR about alternatives, it's one thing to get a negative reference it's another thing for someone to not be able to get one for reasons outside of their control - that's where HR should work with him to find an alternative solution to it.

 

[Ayahuasca]

It's unlikely that a contract would - the contract usually covers the conditions of the ongoing employment not the preliminary stuff they need to cover at the start of it.

It would typically be in an offer letter or email communicating that they're extending an offer.

But the bottom line is that they're asking for references and that's fairly normal, I'm not really sure why you're acting as if it isn't standard or that checking before he signed the contract is something they should have done.

If OP can't get one from the old employer then he needs to talk to HR about alternatives, it's one thing to get a negative reference it's another thing for someone to not be able to get one for reasons outside of their control - that's where HR should work with him to find an alternative solution to it.

Not just the contract though as OP also mentioned “signing all the forms” which I’d assume covers that preliminary stuff. So if it was conditional on those references, they should have been made aware of it. Maybe they have been and it’s just been missed?

I’m not acting like this isn’t standard either, I agreed with you in a post above that it should be done the way you’ve described.