Trying to choose a motherboard for 3900x build

mogwai

mogwai

mogwai

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Hi,

I am trying to choose the motherboard for my new 3900x build. I have been looking at both the Asus and Gigabyte boards and am having a hard time seeing the differences. My main uses for they system will be the usual day to day stuff, running some VM's, coding and some gaming. I already have RTX 2070 Super to go in. I will be getting a m.2 nvme to use for a boot drive and have a conventional disk as well for data etc. I don't need wifi and don't care about any RGB aspects. So I am hoping someone a bit more knowledgeable can provide some assistance and recommendations. I will be looking to use my current Noctua NHD15S as the cooling solution.
  • Asus ROG Strix-F
  • Asus ROG Strix-E
  • Gigabyte AorusElite
  • Gigabyte Aorus Pro
  • Gigabyte Aorus Ultra
 
IS there a reason that most of the build me threads are being recommended Gigabyte rather than Asus boards for X570 builds?
 
May want to include the MSI Unify in that list because it's reviewed as having better VRMs/cooling than those and is the same price as Strix E and Aorus Ultra depending on retailer. You can safely ignore all other MSI X570 boards below that.


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The cheaper Aorus Elite should be fine though.
 
elite would do fine .

Aorus put their thermal sensors quite close to the vrms , not sure how close MSI get theres.

for best VRMs its Aorus, specially the high end, if your testing best VRM you run the boards naked like the X470 Aorus 7 could do and see how long it hold up over 24 hours, much like testing VRM cooling solution. Should be ran in a case not open bench, even a basic one fan in exhaust to mimic any PC and left again for 24 hours.

also need a good thermal gun :D

Gigabyte have the better support and depending which way you want brexit could go, might only further increase etc etc . seems new bios layout helps. would now chose MSI over asus if Gigabyte isn't an option . Use to following ROG series a while, which was a shame, price vs features just inceased/decreased along with support
 
Well if you buy Asus you will not get a HPET toggle why this topic is basically ignored on here shows the level of care and competance going into builds.

Asus are junk basically only certain Gigabyte boatds offer bios level HPET. But no one really talks about it and you can not take advice on here seriously when i am the first to say HPET toggle in the bios is mandatory. And it is mandatory especially if using windows 10. Personally i would refuse to buy anything that has no HPET toggle.
 
Rofflay said:
Well if you buy Asus you will not get a HPET toggle why this topic is basically ignored on here shows the level of care and competance going into builds.

Asus are junk basically only certain Gigabyte boatds offer bios level HPET. But no one really talks about it and you can not take advice on here seriously when i am the first to say HPET toggle in the bios is mandatory. And it is mandatory especially if using windows 10. Personally i would refuse to buy anything that has no HPET toggle.
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From a quick search it looks like that's no longer important, the HPET issues having been resolved before the last generation of Ryzen.
 
Jimmy Weirdarms said:
From a quick search it looks like that's no longer important, the HPET issues having been resolved before the last generation of Ryzen.
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Yup. And just as a warning in general beyond AMD Ryzen: it can mess up the timer if you disable HPET in BIOS. Confirmed it does so on mine (Z87). Changed the timer from 0.5ms to 0.4999992ms which isn't good.

This chap provides useful advice in the video and shows why HPET is best left enabled/why mobo vendors aren't including the option anymore:
 
Jimmy Weirdarms said:
From a quick search it looks like that's no longer important, the HPET issues having been resolved before the last generation of Ryzen.
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What do you mean resolved? HPET is a slower timer and if enabled you use a hybrid timer only OFF gives TSC. If you read this using HPET is slower and it also makes system latency soar.

Read all of this and go ahead, Buy the non hpet mobo and post some latencymon. You should not be going above 50 really while gaming and if you are then you upgradee cores but probably downgraded in system latency and this effects system resppnse, Feel and audio.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12678/a-timely-discovery-examining-amd-2nd-gen-ryzen-results
 
Danny75 said:
Yup. And just as a warning in general beyond AMD Ryzen: it can mess up the timer if you disable HPET in BIOS. Confirmed it does so on mine (Z87). Changed the timer from 0.5ms to 0.4999992ms which isn't good.

This chap provides useful advice in the video and shows why HPET is best left enabled/why mobo vendors aren't including the option anymore:
Click to expand...

Also what does that even mean? Thats the wrong timer on Z87 anyways mate, Thats the whole point changing thr system timer so were not using HPET based slower timers.


0.4999992ms is also a weird number, I must check what mine was prior to the recent windows 10 changes to the timers which hurt system performance. And there is only one way to tell run latencymon! What numbers does the guy in the video achieve because me and many others have changed the timers and noticed our latencymon readings go from 50 idle to 2us and my load went from 110us to 55us max in games and 8k.


Unless i do this i get worse performance but hey go ahead and prove me wrong someone show me the Ryzen 2 latencymon numbers if they could be so kind. Also there is nothing bad either about changing timers It has had zero effect on my Z87 overclock and on Intel systems it matters a bit more than on AMD.
 
Rofflay said:
What do you mean resolved?
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I mean that even in that article you sent me it shows there's no need to have a BIOS setting for this on AMD boards, it's an operating system setting and they got the best results leaving the setting on default, rather than forcing it on. Nothing there suggests that the BIOS needs a setting for it at all.

Several times in the review they state that the impact on intel systems is significant but on AMD systems is virtually nothing, and fine with defaults.
 
Jimmy Weirdarms said:
I mean that even in that article you sent me it shows there's no need to have a BIOS setting for this on AMD boards, it's an operating system setting and they got the best results leaving the setting on default, rather than forcing it on. Nothing there suggests that the BIOS needs a setting for it at all.

Several times in the review they state that the impact on intel systems is significant but on AMD systems is virtually nothing, and fine with defaults.
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Not true because they never documented the actual documented and releatable latency drop from forcing it off in the bios. If you use any other method it can still be turned on by things like cmd promts Ryzen Tool use is an example where it will force on HPET.


They say 4% performance on AMD and larger on Intel but never actually tested in realtime with Latencymon. Not only that they did not document the wintimertester results before they changed anything there would be 3 results bios off default and forced? The timers will probably be different for each one i was under the impression off in bios was superior otherwise windows will use a mix of TSC ,HPET or TSC/HPET hybrid.


Thirdly they also failed to talk about how system latency effects audio and microstutter games will feel and respond worse on a system with bad timer optimization or with HPET on. And with changes to timers made after this article to Windows 10 October 2019 do you know the effects currently? For me it became even worse since last month ive seen a near x3 increase in my system latency and it is so bad i am having to format to Windows 7.


Do you really want to risk it in future? What if they change the strings or force HPET? You could avoid all of this by one simple method ask Gigabyte which board has a HPET bios toggle. They may send you a custom bios but it is crazy talk to do anything else as i warned earlier timers will be changing again soon away from HPET so you do the maths 4% perf, Noticable worse feel with higher latencymon readings and risk of future forced off commnds being obsolete.
 
Rofflay said:
Not true because they never documented the actual documented and releatable latency drop from forcing it off in the bios.
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No, they tested with it off in Windows, in line with advice from AMD.

Rofflay said:
They say 4% performance on AMD
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Pretty sure it was 1-2%, and no BIOS switch in sight.



Rofflay said:
never actually tested in realtime ... they did not document the ... they also failed to...
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So this article doesn't actually help your point at all, in fact it says nothing really about it *at all*, so why did you link to it?

Rofflay said:
Do you really want to risk it in future? What if they change the strings or force HPET?
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Well according to this article, on AMD, not much will happen if they do. Seems pretty irrelevant.
 
Jimmy Weirdarms said:
No, they tested with it off in Windows, in line with advice from AMD.



Pretty sure it was 1-2%, and no BIOS switch in sight.





So this article doesn't actually help your point at all, in fact it says nothing really about it *at all*, so why did you link to it?



Well according to this article, on AMD, not much will happen if they do. Seems pretty irrelevant.
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The article is partly relevent because they document performance benefits and this might be bigger since the change to dynamictick in 1903.


And saying not much will happen well who can say? It will require you to use Itsc timer, You will be using HPET or a mixture because you have no way in the bios of only forcing TSC. Do you not think when.yhis happens it will cause issues where you are on HPET instead of going from TSC to Itsc? There will be other downsides the numbers they documented be it 2-4% is still showing the reality HPET should always ne turned off for maximum performance. But the changes in system latency are much more than the fps results.


An easy way to settle this is i will paste two more links, And you show me your Latencumon readings and we can settle this arguement. Your idle should be 2-7us your gaming max should be 55us.

https://community.amd.com/thread/238035


https://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/615216/which-processor-best-intel-amd/
 
I'm seeing a lot of mights and maybes there.

I have no interest in forcing a particular timer technology in my bios, all the evidence I've seen shows that forcing it on is bad but the OS manages it fine.

Rofflay said:
Do you not think when.yhis happens it will cause issues where you are on HPET instead of going from TSC to Itsc?
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I don't know and until someone shows me definitively there's a problem, I don't really care.

Rofflay said:
There will be other downsides the numbers they documented be it 2-4% is still showing the reality HPET should always ne turned off for maximum performance
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No, it showed you're better off leaving it alone. And you're posting things that don't support your viewpoint, again, from your first link -

There was a case at the beginning of Ryzen's launch that required HPET be disabled, by AMD's own advice, to be disabled. However this was resolved and is no longer the case, and most motherboards do not even have an HPET toggle in BIOS, so don't worry about it, and any issue appears to affect Intel much more than AMD. HPET may even be removed entirely to be replaced by ITSC in the future, but it's not something that will receive much fanfare.
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The second link doesn't mention HPET *at all* until a link at the end to a several year old article with what is now outdated advice. It's really weird that you're posting these links that undermine your point!
Really I think you've jumped on some irrelevant piece of minutiae here, not something that should be used as any sort of guide to purchasing a motherboard. There's no reason to think a BIOS switch for this is a useful, let alone necessary feature.
 
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Jimmy Weirdarms said:
I'm seeing a lot of mights and maybes there.

I have no interest in forcing a particular timer technology in my bios, all the evidence I've seen shows that forcing it on is bad but the OS manages it fine.



I don't know and until someone shows me definitively there's a problem, I don't really care.



No, it showed you're better off leaving it alone. And you're posting things that don't support your viewpoint, again, from your first link -



The second link doesn't mention HPET *at all* until a link at the end to a several year old article with what is now outdated advice. It's really weird that you're posting these links that undermine your point!
Really I think you've jumped on some irrelevant piece of minutiae here, not something that should be used as any sort of guide to purchasing a motherboard. There's no reason to think a BIOS switch for this is a useful, let alone necessary feature.
Click to expand...


Ok so test if the os does manage it then, Hardly anyone has there are 3 timers for windows i already told you tsc hpet and hybrid your using a hybrid timer unless you can force it off look i did all of this and could only get those numbers when i got a bios from Gigabyte. And you who have no links, No numbers or grasp of what it effects is calling me a liar?


Ok then i am out, Goodluck letting windows manage the timers like they did recently with thier changes, Wake up Microsoft are incompetant! So you go ahead buy the board use defaults and tell you what run latencymon side by side with your games windowed and show me the number where windows is managing just fine.


Because if my Z87 system can get a lower score, Well thats a bit laughable Ryzen should be getting no more than 55us at peak loads. The tools link is below.





https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
 
Rofflay said:
Ok so test if the os does manage it then, Hardly anyone has there are 3 timers for windows i already told you tsc hpet and hybrid your using a hybrid timer unless you can force it off look i did all of this and could only get those numbers when i got a bios from Gigabyte. And you who have no links, No numbers or grasp of what it effects is calling me a liar?
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No, I'm saying you haven't yet shown any of us why we should care, and all the links you supplied so far have contradicted you.

Rofflay said:
Well thats a bit laughable Ryzen should be getting no more than 55us at peak loads.
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Why? Why should be Ryzen getting those figures and why should I care?
 
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