Trying to understand the Technology in consoles

Jamesdavid3

Jamesdavid3

Jamesdavid3

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I cant understand how the Xbox 360's/PS3 hardware can still run HiDef/High Quality smooth games which the console came out over 3 years ago and PC hardware still cant handle it

My example is that the hardware which is inside the Xbox360 is over 3 years old now and it can run GTA4 for example perfectly, smooth and with excellent detail. But the highest demand Graphic cards and processors at the moment cant handle them for the PC in the same game and its 3 years later, you would think it wouldnt be a problem now!

What makes consoles have that better power overall? is it because all there Parts are made to perfectly work together? and what kind of Graphics card must they be using to make the gameplay smooth all the time?! Do they fit consoles with technology which isnt out for PC's yet?
 
The developers know exactly the configuration of hardware they will be working with. The game engine can then be optimised to work near enough to perfect as you can get for that hardware.

PC hardware has near endless hardware combinations, not to mention software installed can have a conflict with a game.
 
although I agree with you, your example of GTA 4 is pretty bad

I thought it was slow, jerky and muddy on the 360

And the PC specs are well documented, it crawls on a large amount of rigs

Though I do agree with you though..
 
consistent hardware and lazy ports

the tech in consoles is 3+ years old, iirc they have the equivalent of the 7800 and the 1800 (from nivdea and ATi respectively) which is 3-4 years old.

it's a far more lucrative market for games developers, the massive price difference in games for console/PC as well as a better piracy protection (yes, it is possible and many people do it, but every man and his dog knows how to download illegal software for the PC, it involves a little more effort for consoles) means they put less effort in to the PC versions
 
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Also console games tend to run at lower resolutions like 720p.

As said the ps3 graphics rsx is based on the 7800 ultra while the xbox 360 is between the r500 and r600 ati cards as it shares more similarities with the 2900 series.
 
ColdAsIce said:
The developers know exactly the configuration of hardware they will be working with. The game engine can then be optimised to work near enough to perfect as you can get for that hardware.

PC hardware has near endless hardware combinations, not to mention software installed can have a conflict with a game.
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That is surely the key factor, way above 'lazy ports', if you are designing something to work in an exact way you can make it much smoother than something that has to cover lots of possibilities.
 
ColdAsIce said:
The developers know exactly the configuration of hardware they will be working with. The game engine can then be optimised to work near enough to perfect as you can get for that hardware.

PC hardware has near endless hardware combinations, not to mention software installed can have a conflict with a game.
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Couldn't have said it better. I've written about this so many times, and it is why I moved away from PC gaming to the 360 back in 2005.

Fixed hardware that consoles have is an instant advantage for coders. You can write a game specific to that hardware and cream 100% performance out of it. At the end of the day you will know that your title will run 100% perfect on every console as a result.

The PC is different. Devs need to make comprimises in code, the same way web designers need to code their sites to be perfect in all browsers (sadly, nice one IE). No one PC is alike and they have to account for that when making a title. In the end time is the most precious thing and right now in this day and age it costs an absolute ton.

So time costs money, hence why the PC is getting its ports now. Rockstar could rewrite and spend time sorting out that pile of bloated, sluggish pap that is GTA4 on the PC but then it would hit them hard financially. Better to port the game over from the 360, since the 360 uses directx and then tweak the game post-release.

As it stands devs will make a ton of cash on the console platforms rather than the PC - this was another reason why I moved. I saw PC titles in the future being mostly ports.

An exception to this rule is chaps like Valve, I am not a fan of Steam but I congratulate them for constantly evolving that distribution platform because it was an utter turd during its early days. Valve have remained faithful to the PC market.

My favourite title Dead Rising has just been announced on the 360/PC, yet I am tempted to avoid the PC version for my above reasons. Sod the 'better' textures and all that balls when gameplay and smoothness is paramount.
 
TBF though consoles games are seriously low res. You could probably run a lot of current games at circa 1280x720 on an 7800. o.0
 
Nanoman said:
TBF though consoles games are seriously low res. You could probably run a lot of current games at circa 1280x720 on an 7800. o.0
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I seriously doubt that, my 8800GT which is multiple times more powerful than a 7800 stuggles with GTAIV and Crysis an high detail at that res. Ok they're the very top end of PC games, but as i say my current graphics card is at least twice as powerful at a 7800.

Put it this way; if you were to put the PC equivalent hardware of a ps3/360 into a case, install windows XP and fire up a game it wouldn't run as well as it does on the consoles, even at the same res.
 
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Jonny_no2 said:
That is surely the key factor, way above 'lazy ports', if you are designing something to work in an exact way you can make it much smoother than something that has to cover lots of possibilities.
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so....lazy ports.

most games designed from the ground up for the PC are superb (with most of the hardware they are designed to work on), whereas games built for the 360 (which is the platform of choice) and then ported to the PC and PS3 tend to suffer.
 
vincent1989 said:
so....lazy ports.

most games designed from the ground up for the PC are superb (with most of the hardware they are designed to work on), whereas games built for the 360 (which is the platform of choice) and then ported to the PC and PS3 tend to suffer.
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While a lot of poor performing games come down to being a poor port it's more complex than that. As people have said programming something to work to the full potential of thousands of possible combinations of hardware is pretty much impossible. I can't think of any recent PC exclusive games other than crysis; a game which ran pretty poorly tbh, this is proven by how much better crysis:warhead ran.
 
As others have said its mainly about the coding.

Also consider that PC's are running operating systems in the background and even though some of it gets unloaded before the game launches its still a massive overhead.

Then look at the average console title running @ 720P = 1280x720 (921600 pixels) thats way less pixels than the std PC title @ 1920x1200=2304000 pixels the difference is staggering. To render those extra pixels with HDR and whatever other intense gfx techniques they use is very demanding.

PC games usually have ultra high res textures & plenty of AA & AF most console games use minimal gfx settings to achieve similar results and even reduce resolution to below 720P as they cannot cope with that and decent FPS. Then you also see the worrying trend where consoles are lacking vsync so you get poor screen tearing on some games which looks really bad on HDTVs as the screen scale magnifys the glitch. Developers disable vsync as its a cheap way to maintain a reasonable FPS vs another 6-12 months of optimising the code to give better performance.

PC is technically a long way ahead (next generation consoles will be equivalent to current high end PC's available now) but due to the severe piracy problem where without fail almost every game is getting pirated way more than it ever sells copies of you can see that its in for a very rough ride with developer support. Pirates use excuses like the PC port is crap or whatever yet even COD4 (which is best played on a PC as its technically flawless) did not even sell 1 million copies vs the 7 million and rising on the consoles. GTA4 looks incredible on a reasonable Quad Core PC with a 512MB gfx card yet again pirates play the excuse it runs like crap on my 4 year old OEM PC.

I still buy all the PC's games I am interested in even if their multiplatform releases the PC is nearly always technically stronger. Otherwise I have my X360 + PS3 for backup when they do not release something on the PC.

In the past 4 years the only PC games which really took advantage of the superior hardware on the PC were Far Cry, Crysis, Crysis Warhead (all by the same developer Crytek). Every other PC game was just a graphically enhanced console port. That tells you all you need to know about how much developer support is given to create state of the art PC games!!
 
Streeteh said:
While a lot of poor performing games come down to being a poor port it's more complex than that. As people have said programming something to work to the full potential of thousands of possible combinations of hardware is pretty much impossible. I can't think of any recent PC exclusive games other than crysis; a game which ran pretty poorly tbh, this is proven by how much better crysis:warhead ran.
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any of the total war games?
 
vincent1989 said:
most games designed from the ground up for the PC are superb
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Like Crysis? :p

Streetah said:
I seriously doubt that, my 8800GT which is multiple times more powerful than a 7800 stuggles with GTAIV and Crysis an high detail at that res. Ok they're the very top end of PC games, but as i say my current graphics card is at least twice as powerful at a 7800.

Put it this way; if you were to put the PC equivalent hardware of a ps3/360 into a case, install windows XP and fire up a game it wouldn't run as well as it does on the consoles, even at the same res.
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Those are bad examples though to be fair, the 360 & PS3 versions of GTAIV run pretty badly and Crysis isnt even on a console. Youd be able to get a PC with a 7800GTX to play a lot of the current console games at same res/lack of aa etc. For example, Oblivion I could play fine on my old 7800GT with a higher res than 720. Also a lot of games arent even at 720p. COD4 would easily be playable on a 7800 PC at 640.
 
I would say a pretty small percentage of gamers game at 1920x1200 resolution. Personally I know nobody who games at that. I know a couple that game at 1680x1050 (me included) but most are on 19" monitors with 1280x1024.
 
GTA IV runs bad because of bad CPU usage, it would run well on a 7800 if the CPU was a quad core. (it's ridiculous it needs a quad core to run well mind)
 
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