Turning right on a red at a junction

woofercooker · 22 Dec 2013 at 10:46

Im just after some legal definition here regarding turning right at a junction .If lights are green when you move forward onto the junction to turn right and are waiting for a clearing in the traffic to go but don't get one and the lights turn red while your already in the middle of the junction and then you go is this legal?

The junction in question is hella busy and literally only 2 cars ever get to get pretty much as soon as the lights go red. If you were to not pull into the junction and sit behind the white line only a single car will get through on every light cycle, and you'd be waiting for half an hour to get through the junction.

Jokester · 22 Dec 2013 at 10:53

Yes - if you've passed the solid white line if you don't move off out of the junction you're potentially causing an obstruction.

woofercooker · 22 Dec 2013 at 11:15

Is that a yes its illegal? what is the difference between junctions with yellow box sections and ones with no markings then? yellow box junction means you can't enter that area if unless the exit is clear, but if you can't do that anyway why have yellow box junctions? lol

touch · 22 Dec 2013 at 11:32

If the light is green when you pass the solid white line, it's legal.

woofercooker · 22 Dec 2013 at 11:52

touch said:
If the light is green when you pass the solid white line, it's legal.

This is what i assumed, to me it makes no sense waiting at the white line while the lights green because on a busy road there might not be a clearing in traffic for multiple light changes, id imagine people would be beeping like crazy. I always assumed this was legal as practically everybody dose this. Id never really thought about it until now.

Reason i ask is my brother got hit by a car that ran the red light from the oncoming traffic as he was turning right, he turned right the monument the lights went red but had crossed the white line while the lights were still green.

GeX · 22 Dec 2013 at 12:18

How do you know the other car had run a red light, if the light controlling where your brother was had turned red then it's possible that the other person's was on green (depending on timings). In that kind of situation then you just need to be careful - you can't assume it's still OK to go.

yellow box junction means you can't enter that area if unless the exit is clear,

Not quite

Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (download ‘Road markings’ (PDF, 731KB)). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right.

touch · 22 Dec 2013 at 12:35

woofercooker said:
Reason i ask is my brother got hit by a car that ran the red light from the oncoming traffic as he was turning right, he turned right the monument the lights went red but had crossed the white line while the lights were still green.

Your brother did nothing wrong with regards to the traffic light but he still should have given way to oncoming cars before turning across their path. Your brother is at fault but not for going through a red light.

woofercooker · 22 Dec 2013 at 12:43

GeX said:
How do you know the other car had run a red light, if the light controlling where your brother was had turned red then it's possible that the other person's was on green (depending on timings). In that kind of situation then you just need to be careful - you can't assume it's still OK to go.

The witness was alking along the road coming from the direction the car that ran the red light was coming so he saw the light from the 3rd partys side.However you do make a very good point which i never would have thought of regarding the light timings,I would have expected the lights to be timed the same considering the lights for both cars where basically the same unit on the same pole, ie 1 pole with lights facing forwards and back ways its not like 2 lights in different locations.

woofercooker · 22 Dec 2013 at 12:47

touch said:
Your brother did nothing wrong with regards to the traffic light but he still should have given way to oncoming cars before turning across their path. Your brother is at fault but not for going through a red light.

That doesn't seem right imo, I am not just trying to defend my brother either, But if the lights turn red and another car runs the lights and hits you i don't see how that can be your fault. If you can still see a car approaching the junction n after the lights had turned red you expect them to stop not carry on through.

Jokester · 22 Dec 2013 at 12:48

If the opposing traffic flow are on separate timings they would (or at least should) have a dedicated right turn traffic light.

touch · 22 Dec 2013 at 12:57

woofercooker said:
That doesn't seem right imo, I am not just trying to defend my brother either, But if the lights turn red and another car runs the lights and hits you i don't see how that can be your fault. If you can still see a car approaching the junction n after the lights had turned red you expect them to stop not carry on through.

You can't see the other cars lights so you don't know what colour it is. You always have to give way whenever you are turning across the path of another car (unless there is dedicated filter for turning right)

Orionaut · 22 Dec 2013 at 16:27

woofercooker said:
The witness was alking along the road coming from the direction the car that ran the red light was coming so he saw the light from the 3rd partys side.However you do make a very good point which i never would have thought of regarding the light timings,I would have expected the lights to be timed the same considering the lights for both cars where basically the same unit on the same pole, ie 1 pole with lights facing forwards and back ways its not like 2 lights in different locations.

There is a nasty junction in Goddalming like that! You wait to turn right. Lights go red. But they are still green for oncoming traffic! :eek:

I am amazed there are not more accidents!

Django x2 · 22 Dec 2013 at 16:52

This, well not quite, really gets on my man boobs.

There's a junction near us that is two lanes. Left for straight on or left, right for right only (against a flow of oncoming traffic). Right has a filter set of lights, not an arrow, it's actual own set of red, amber and green. Left lane usually gets green first. The number of times people in the right lane have turned right when the oncoming traffic has passed (yet the light is still red) is a massive pain in my butt.