Turntables

Martynt74

Martynt74

Martynt74

Soldato
Joined
20 Feb 2004
Posts
23,176
Location
Hondon de las Nieves, Spain
Despite all my advice to people who want to buy a turntable with little to no vinyl being that it's a waste of time and not to bother.

Guess who now wants a turntable??

Reasons being

1. I still have some vinyl from a couple years ago when I last bought a turntable.
2. I keep seeing a lot of special releases being on Vinyl which looks pretty.
3. Whilst 99% of my music collection is on CD, I’ve found myself using Spotify a lot more and restricting cd purchases for things I particularly want rather than “ooh pretty album cover”, as such my physical music purchases have dropped from ~ 10 a month to ~2 a month. The reason I last gave up on vinyl was due to the increased cost of vinyl compared to CD. However given reduced volume this is no longer a factor.
4. The Vinyl I did buy, generally sounded better than the equivalent CD.
5. I think I’m more likely to find time to sit down and listen to an entire album.
6. I want something new to play with.


I’m well aware that to get something good sounding from vinyl can cost more than a comparable digital setup. This doesn’t daunt me too much, I like messing with things and have no illusions of the huge amount I’ll probably waste on cartridges/tone arms etc. However Amp wise I don’t see much option for improvement without spending silly amounts so this gives me some footing to start again building up to something special.

As such I’m looking for suggestions. I’m happy to go used, however I don’t really know enough about turntables to know whats good and bad. Given my tinkering habits I’d like something which doesn’t lock me into something (such as Clearaudio turntables). I would however like to buy something as a complete package to start with rather than individual items. At least until I get more familiar with it.

As such I’ve been looking at either the Rega RP3 or the Pro-Ject Xpression Carbon. This should give an idea of budget being up to around £700 ish which then gives me a couple hundred to spend on a phono stage (of which I’ve already spoken to someone about)


As a background my existing hifi is

Icon Audio Stereo 60 with KT150 valves
Densen B410
Squeezebox Touch
Belkin PF40 Mains thingy majig.
 
It sounds to me like you've picked the right things to look at if you're going new.
Secondhand I don't know if you could find a Michell Gyrodec at that sort of budget - that might give you more scope for future tinkering.
 
Yeah I thought so. Doesn't seem like a huge market at this kind of budget other than Rega or Project.

Seems to open up the market beyond those 2 takes going upwards of £1500 (bar some one off products I've seen)

I'll have a look at a Gyrodeck, but I assumed that'd be over budget.
 
Nothing particularly, however I tend to switch things around a lot (although I've almost had my amp for a year now!)

I'm not opposed to being locked into one particular thing but I like experimenting and trying new things. So the opportunity to try different sounding cartridges would be a nice option to have for the future.
 
if you like to tinker but want somethign operational from the off you could do worse than look at a secondhand Linn Sondek - they start at anything down to about £350 (may even be less now) and go up to very silly money. they key point is that they been in development for 28 years but all upgrades are backwards compatible (if you have the money) so for a tweaker they are an absolute delight. And frankly if you like the sound of vinyl (luckliy both me and my wife do) even a very basic one (like mine) knocks the socks of the processed sound you get from CD players.

I know they're a cliche but they're a cliche for a reason.
 
Marvt74 said:
Nothing particularly, however I tend to switch things around a lot (although I've almost had my amp for a year now!)

I'm not opposed to being locked into one particular thing but I like experimenting and trying new things. So the opportunity to try different sounding cartridges would be a nice option to have for the future.
Click to expand...
Changing cartridges is possible with nearly all good tone arms: Linn - Rega/Origin Live - SME - Mission - Grace etc. The few tonearms that wouldn't allow it are probably from TTs that wouldn't be up to the standard you're looking for anyway.

As always, there are exceptions. Certain Proj-Jects have a built-in phono pre-amp that limits them to moving magnets cartridges. But that's more about them being a simple all-in-one solution for people who don't want anything more than a plug-n-play solution. There's lots of other Proj-Jects with a stright output on phono cable. They'll take MM or Moving Coil cartrdges with a suitable phono pre-amp.

I'd agree about the upgradability of LP12s. Almost every part can be replaced for an updated one if ypu have deep enough pockets. Whether you'll hear the benefits as such big steps relative to the cost is debatable. A cartridge will make a big change. The benefit of a cirkus bearing kit or trampolin suspension upgrade might only be realised after the TT is set up again to bounce properly, and there's not many people in the UK who can do that properly. Chris Brookes in Warrington is about the closest.
 
Cheers Lucid.

As I mentioned my knowledge is fairly limited. I've see the odd turntable which suggested it was set for a Rega arm or another kind of arm and didn't know how interchangeable they are.

If changing cartridges is easy at this early level then that's probably all i'll be doing to start with.

Yeah I've looked at a few of the projects with build in phono stages, whilst it'd be handy to start off with I'd rather keep them separate. It's only an extra plug and phono lead required and that's not something I don't have in abundance anyway!

I've been offered a Voyd Valdi with a Rega RB250 arm which from the limited reading I've done seems to be a good turntable. Just not sure I can get over the dull old fashioned black ash look of it, which then makes me want to look at custom plinths!

Did take a look at Inspire Designs which seem to have a couple of offerings at this level.


I think i'll just keep scanning ebay/forums and see what pops up, I'm in no particular rush.


EDIT: One thing I have noticed is that some tables seem to be suspended decks which are more bouncy without proper support. I live in an oldish terraced house and you can feel a lot of things vibrate through the walls. I'm unlikely to invest in a dedicated wall shelf straight away (lack of space being one reason), would this suggest I should avoid suspended decks?
 
Yeah, you've got springy decks (e.g. Linn LP12, Pink Triangle, Systemdeck, Ariston, A&R) and solid decks with some kind of vibration damping in the plinth and/or feet (e.g. Linn Axis and Basik, Regas, Pro-Jects, Roksan, Revolver, Technics). Springy floor + springy turntable often results in the 'needle' bunny-hopping across the record. So a solid plinth design might work better for you.

Unless you plan to run with one of the very high mass TTs where the platter is a foot thick rotating column of granite then I'd suggest you have a play with a light weight table. IKEA LACK is perfect for the job.

The idea of a light weight support goes back to the boom days of vinyl in the 80's when Sound Organisation TT stands were de rigueur. As a penniless school kid with my first TT (Revolver) in the early 80's I knocked up a wall shelf and used a piece of 3mm ply. It worked a tread and the deck seemed to sound more alive than plonked on the heavy record cabinet.
 
cant fault my rega p3 with Super Elys cartridge tbh . I and total disagree with your statement on costs against digital. A good £1000 turntable set-up will beat a digital one any day
 
Some good suggestions listed above, what I would urge is don't go down the eBay route. Search out dealers in your area and call to see what second hand decks they have.
Then listen to some new options against the used offerings. Get a feel for what level of performance you get for money, plus you get to try before you buy.
Said dealer then can ensure what you buy is properly serviced and set up. TT's like speakers are personal things... you need to listen not buy off internet foo and spin.

I'll say a TT source will cost more than a digital source to get as good or better performance..... BUT, you'll nearly always manage to beat a digital source should you take it far enough. That's been my experience over the last 30 years (Linn based).

What type of floors do you have? ..... If you have an outside brick wall then that wouldn't move if the floors are bouncy. That said if sprung deck hops across the record it's likely it's not set up correctly and doesn't have an even bounce.

9D
 
Cheers fella.

I've popped into Audio-T in Manchester where I've had some good service in the past. However at this budget my options seem fairly limited to the Rega or Project offerings mentioned above.

I know the community over at Hifi Wigwam is generally pretty good and I know a few of those guys personally so am keeping an eye on there. As you said Ebay can be a minefield and I wouldn't want to end up with a dud and lose enjoyment and get disillusioned from the off.

The floors downstairs are suspended and you can definitely feel the movement, especially when the kids are crashing down the stairs! At the moment I'm trying to avoid getting a dedicated wall shelf. Although I don't recally any issues with scratching on my old Rega Planar 2
 
I'd say just get a Rega or Projekt and get started.... can't go far wrong with either as an entry point... later when you see how it goes you can look to develop the addiction further ;)
Enjoy the experience :D
 
9designs2 said:
That said if sprung deck hops across the record it's likely it's not set up correctly and doesn't have an even bounce.

9D
Click to expand...

My Thorens TD160 is bad for bounce if you walk past it.. Seems to be well setup so I think it' just the placement, the unit it's on and it being on a modern sprung floor.

Sounds fantastic though..
 
Are you looking to get an amp with built-in phono stage , or are you going offboard ?

turntable_zpsa3bdff77.jpg
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to a very quick picture ... due to space limitation my Vinyl setup is headphone based atm and with a fairly modest hi-fi amp ... ive had way better but it does the job.

rega p3 with a Marantz 6005 amp which has built-in phono ..... lack of space is stopping me going to better / back in parents house
 
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My current setup consists of:

Thorens TD160
A&R P77 cartridge
Audio Technica AT1120 Arm

thorens.jpg


Running through a Technics SU-7300 Amp:

technics.jpg


and currently a pair of Mission 73S Speakers (next item to be upgraded)
 
Well I've ignored all advice (and sensible thinking) and bought something off ebay! The plus side is it's not some tatty turntable off some random bloke. It's an ex-demo version from Henley Designs who are the distributors for Project.

I'd been looking at the Xpression range (and always thought the Acrylic versions looked amazing but were too expensive), then I saw this on ebay and kept an eye on it and think I've got it for a decent price

Link

Stupid? Definitely. But it's so Purdy and it comes with a short warranty and from previous dealings with Henley Designs I think they'll be helpful in the event of any issues.
 
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Marvt74 said:
Well I've ignored all advice (and sensible thinking) and bought something off ebay! The plus side is it's not some tatty turntable off some random bloke. It's an ex-demo version from Henley Designs who are the distributors for Project.

I'd been looking at the Xpression range (and always thought the Acrylic versions looked amazing but were too expensive), then I saw this on ebay and kept an eye on it and think I've got it for a decent price

Link

Stupid? Definitely. But it's so Purdy and it comes with a short warranty and from previous dealings with Henley Designs I think they'll be helpful in the event of any issues.
Click to expand...

Nice one. I'd have bought that one if it had come up at when I was upgrading.
 
Yeah, I'm fairly excited about it.

The Tube Box arrived this morning by the way. Can't wait to get it all set up :)
 
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