Under a dealer warranty, should injectors count as part of the engine?

[Noughtboy]

Short story, bought a s/h BMW120i to use in ULEZ zone.

Had a FBMWSH and was clean and good condition with a three month engine/gearbox warranty.

The car within a month had a couple of inches of water in the rear footwell. The fault was (eventually) traced to a blown seal in the windscreen but took a while during which there was loads of water everytime it rained and of course condensation all over the car. Forward to whilst this was being diagnosed, the EML started to come on along with the radio and parking sensors occasionally not working.

The dealer was notified and plugged in the OBD which notified of a miss in cylinder 2. He swopped the coil with cylinder 3. The fault reappeared the following day on cylinder 2 implying it was either a spark plug or the fuel injector. His claim is this not covered under the engine warranty (which has no documentation) as it is not part of the block and was rather an ancillary so not covered under the "engine" part. Any mechanically minded people who would agree with this?

To me, a starter motor would not be the engine. Or a turbo. But the fuel injector/s?

Am I wrong?

 

[Noughtboy]

You need the warranty paperwork. Some warranty's cover everything whilst some only cover certain components. Who underwrites the warranty?

It was a dealer stamped "3 month Warranty covering Engine, Gearbox, Mechanical Breakdown Failure only. £300 claim limit. Warranty does not cover cambelts and tensioners".

That's it. No other paperwork and no other company name mentioned leading me to believe that it is with the dealer himself.

 

[Noughtboy]

+1 agreed,

£300 claim limit and only three months covered, dealer has made the warranty up simply to say car offered with warranty.

If you read and agreed to that warranty before purchasing the car you only have yourself to blame for being in the position you are in now.
Fortunately, you seem to have some type of protection under consumer rights but I think you may need to push hard to get anywhere with the dealer
Name and shame the dealer.

In truth, he hasn't been too bad to deal with to date. Just he is "very busy at the moment"and things take a week to resolve and then back when it wasn't that etc. We are running into the 6 months deadline (although the faults were highlighted within 9 weeks and are ongoing.)

I was letting him sort it except he just came up with the injectors not being part of the engine BS and that I would have to pay for it. I told him I would not be paying to fix a pre existing fault especially as it was reported within the time of the "warranty". This is when he made the statement about injectors not being part of the engine so therefore not covered and that is what have have taken umbrage to.

 

[Noughtboy]

like he said -

you've had it a month - so like the other recent thread on vw flywheel that went awol after very short ownership period - dealer needs to show injectors weren't faulty at sale -
when were earliest mis-fire events logged in obd system ? (or, did he wipe that evidence ) how many miles have you done. (e: & age/mileage of car - what fuel used ?)
can't but think dealer should be sorting this .. and he probably knows this, if he is misdirecting you from the Sales of goods act towards this being an invalid warranty claim.

Car is a 2010 BMW 120i Coupe with 81000 miles with the FBMWSH. We have done maybe 1500m since the purchase is mid September 2023 - mostly due to it being either filled with water, misfiring or under investigation or repair for above. He was advised by text late November about the misfire and electrical gremlins (radio failing to switch on and rear parking sensors also not working and then working and then not etc).

The leaking windscreen was only apparent after we returned from holiday in late October although had been reported within the 30 days but only traced to windscreen mid November.

Fuel was standard 95 RON. We have jumped from coil pack to spark plugs to possibly injectors but now the miss has spread to cylinder 2 AND 4. Reckon it may be related to an oil pressure sensor meaning the VANOS system is not working or fuel pressure/NO2 sensor. I think at this point, if it one of those, he needs to come to the party or return the cash less a charge for our use (probably a third done driving up and done to his dealership or another repair place!)

Will use the SOGA as the reason if he starts to get lippy because as mentioned he has one chance to repair it and then it is deemed his problem and can be returned.

 

[Noughtboy]

£300 wouldn't even cover one OEM genuine Siemens injector new, let alone 4! No warranty is going to fit used or non OEM parts, or replace all 4 on a car worth 2-3 grand when working fine that's 14 years old. Regardless of this clown making up a fake warranty. So you're screwed either way.
You bought it sold as seen basically, anything else is hearsay.

You may be correct but I would disagree (possibly because I am generally disagreeable )

The problem was raised within the 6 months (and we still have another month to go in any case) so have time to argue and attempt restitution. Will find out later from mechanic what he currently believes to be the issue.

 

[Noughtboy]

Did you purchase any of the car history checks from the online data services before purchasing the car?

We had it in the book. All standard stuff (oil, filters, brakes, tyres) apart from a NO sensor and an low fuel pressure sensor in 2017...which leads me to believe this is a potential culprit.

 

[Noughtboy]

Poor general public buying a high mileage nearly 20 year old cars knowing full well they're old/high mileage... Expecting something for nothing for the entirety of the ownership, blame everyone else for wear and tear servicable items that can fail at anytime due to age/mileage wah wah wah. How pathetic.

You have NO idea about cars clearly. Do you get the crankshaft inspected for scoring before you buy your used cars and get them to rehone the bores 'just incase it don't get to next MOT m9' Grow up with your sue culture woke nonsense.

Firstly, it is not a HIGH mileage car. Cars can easily last 150k miles or longer if looked after. I went over this car with a fine tooth comb, I checked its service history, it's MOT history and drove it checking things like tyres, gearbox, drive shaft etc etc.
However, I failed to check if the windscreen was leaking water into the cabin. My bad! Everything started after that.

The reason we bought from a dealer was the protection provided by the law otherwise I would have gone private and paid a couple of grand cheaper to cover things like this. I figured his warranty was not with a company but himself with the stamp and no paperwork. The enquiry was merely to head him off at the pass with regards to the injectors not forming part of the engine. As I mentioned, he has been easyish to deal with apart from things taking a week here or there. I wouldn't necessarily invite him to a party but we are still friendly.

But now we are getting to the stage where it isn't likely to be a spark plug or an injector I feel that it is time he starts to make good on a "Warranty" he stamped (and bear in mind this was notified around 9 weeks into ownership) or issue some sort of refund on the car for me to cover the costs.

 

[Noughtboy]

did you pay £100 or more on a credit card? if so maybe they will cover it?

Nope...he only offered bank transfers. I did ask for this reason.

And just so @keef247 knows, that car has (as all my cars are) been treated with respect. They are driven below 2500 rpm for about 10 minutes to warm up the oil, the water and oil is checked regularly and they are not driven until 12500 miles before the oil is changed.

I buy Castrol Magnatec not cooking oil marketed for cars, premium tyres (Goodyear/Continental etc) and pads/discs (Brembo or similar) and the cars are not run ragged.

As I mentioned, I checked out the service history and MOT for advisories and tested the car for brakes, tracking straight, no noises, shocks and springs being in good nick, driveshaft and CV joints balanced/not clacking etc. Thus, unless something was deliberately hidden (for example the windscreen leaking could NOT have gone unnoticed) I think I was thorough. As highlighted, we paid over the odds to buy from a dealer precisely to circumvent any problems... Otherwise I would have gone private and saved at least a grand or two to cover this type of eventually.

I happen to agree with you that the law can be abused and some people take the P (and especially with regards to being sued by a burglar hurting themselves whilst robbing your house. I am a firm advocate of being able to own and use a firearm and using it to defend my family and property including causing a permanent loss of consciousness induced by a minimum of two or more 9mm or larger perforations leading to a sudden and catastrophic loss of blood loss or organ failure especially in light of the fact that criminals can gain access to firearms and law abiding citizens cannot but that is another story) but that is not the case here and a dealer was used to mitigate being schlentered.

 

[Noughtboy]

whats the mileage the car has done? standard service like sparkplugs may be due which would probably fix your issue.

Car has done 3500 since last service (which was at 79000 miles). Currently on 82500 of which we may have done 1000 (possibly not quite that much 25% of which had been to the dealer and back or his associates probably 15 times to sort out the issues highlighted).

It has been with him for at least three weeks over that time.

 

[Noughtboy]

I'd have expected that spark plugs and coil pack would have been their first point of call. Wouldn't normally jump to conclusion of injector straight away.

I see your in Essex, though I know Essex is quite a large place, but Colchester fuel injection in Colchester (amazingly) have an asnu tester for fuel injectors and sometimes only some times they can be revived.

atspeed in Rayleigh also has an asnu injector tester.

IM in agreement the dealer should be fixing this under warranty.

This is exactly what happened. The dealer sent it to one of his BMW "specialists". They first switched the plugs around and then the car literally started rougher and then refused to turnover for a while after being switched off. 2 cylinders were now misfiring

At that point they changed plugs (one of which [#2] was a lot cleaner than the others) and coil packs.

It ran better but was smoking badly so they diagnosed a leaking fuel injector on 2 (causing the misfire and clean spark plug there) which was potentially causing low fuel pressure on 4 (leading to a misfire there). They have ordered two reconditioned injectors just in case (after reading him the Riots Act, the dealer has agreed to pay by the way so that is a win at least). They are busy being coded and hopefully the car arrives back on Friday 1 month later FFS!

 

[Noughtboy]

This is exactly what happened. The dealer sent it to one of his BMW "specialists". They first switched the plugs around and then the car literally started rougher and then refused to turnover for a while after being switched off. 2 cylinders were now misfiring

At that point they changed plugs (one of which [#2] was a lot cleaner than the others) and coil packs.

It ran better but was smoking badly so they diagnosed a leaking fuel injector on 2 (causing the misfire and clean spark plug there) which was potentially causing low fuel pressure on 4 (leading to a misfire there). They have ordered two reconditioned injectors just in case (after reading him the Riots Act, the dealer has agreed to pay by the way so that is a win at least). They are busy being coded and hopefully the car arrives back on Friday 1 month later FFS!

The dealer only delivered 1 fuel injector so when #2 was replaced #4 is still playing up. It has been at his mechanics for over 6 weeks for diagnosis and then them trying to change things piece meal and him taking 2 weeks to deliver 1 injector and still waiting for the second.

He refused to pay for the spark plugs and coil pack and 4 hours of labour to diagnose the issue so off to small claims we go.

Will sue him for what we paid to get the non working car back (£480 for plugs, coil pack and 4 hours labour). In addition, will add 6 months of insurance and road tax, petrol for all the trips to the dealer and time for my wife and I to drive up and down for 12+ trips so another £1000 on top of the £500 I have already paid.

I will make his life an absolute misery so that he will not only lose money on the car but hopefully even more