Undervolting with AC/DC LL query

[0121danwilliams84]

Hi all.

I am a bit confused about the difference between changing LLC levels (such as 1-8) and undervolting via AC/DC LL.

If you change from level 3 to 5 for example the ac/dc Loadline seems to go down (1.1 to 0.73) but I imagine that is not undervolting?

Could anyone explain this in basic terms as googling is not getting the answer!

Thanks

 

[TechnoCorruption]

As far as I know LLC is Load Line Calibration and is basically a extra bit of voltage supplied during load to account for the vdroop.

 

[TechnoCorruption]

Also Undervolting would mean lowering the cpu vcore in gerneral, and not just the difference supplied as extra under load.

 

[0121danwilliams84]

As far as I know LLC is Load Line Calibration and is basically a extra bit of voltage supplied during load to account for the vdroop.

Thanks for the reply. I kind of go that part of it but was interested in how people are undervolting via the AL loadlines rather than a traditional vcore offset.

It is a bit of a tricky thing to explain and understand though I imagine!

 

[adamsleath]

watch buildzoids recent video's
unfortunately, apart from a vague understanding, i cant comment more helpfully.
as for the ac/dc setting on my particular motherboard (asus) i've set them both to "1" with an LLC of 5 . i know from my small experiment that setting a higher ac/dc ll value increased the vcore voltage greatly. the value setting of 1 in my case actually slightly lowered the vcore voltage under stress test loads (so i thought good one! and left it at that)
the default value on my board is "0"

now BZ did an experiment by setting the ac and dc ll values to different values (the boards' bioses usually recommend to set them to identical values)
and this had a notable effect on his vcore voltages (i cannot recall what exactly but this may be related to your original question of manipulating vcore with the ac/dc ll values -see buildzoid's videos )

depending on your specific platform you may wish to reduce the vdroop by setting a higher value for LLC (or lower on some motherboards where the vdroop settings are opposite for some reason) this has the effect of minimising undershoot.
CEP - current excursion protection is a feature that minimises overshoot on some boards.

im a believer in utilising board features in the bios...so, the ultimate way to find out is by tweaking your settings to see the result.
PS if you learn more please share i'd also like to know more about it.

 

[0121danwilliams84]

watch buildzoids recent video's
unfortunately, apart from a vague understanding, i cant comment more helpfully.
as for the ac/dc setting on my particular motherboard (asus) i've set them both to "1" with an LLC of 5 . i know from my small experiment that setting a higher ac/dc ll value increased the vcore voltage greatly. the value setting of 1 in my case actually slightly lowered the vcore voltage under stress test loads (so i thought good one! and left it at that)
the default value on my board is "0"

now BZ did an experiment by setting the ac and dc ll values to different values (the boards' bioses usually recommend to set them to identical values)
and this had a notable effect on his vcore voltages (i cannot recall what exactly but this may be related to your original question of manipulating vcore with the ac/dc ll values -see buildzoid's videos )

depending on your specific platform you may wish to reduce the vdroop by setting a higher value for LLC (or lower on some motherboards where the vdroop settings are opposite for some reason) this has the effect of minimising undershoot.
CEP - current excursion protection is a feature that minimises overshoot on some boards.

im a believer in utilising board features in the bios...so, the ultimate way to find out is by tweaking your settings to see the result.
PS if you learn more please share i'd also like to know more about it.

Hi, thank you for your response and the info.

I have watched buildzoid's videos, I just think a lot of it goes over my head (even when I watch the whole rambling episode.)

I just don't think I got what the differences between AC/DC LL and LLC values actual was.

I presumed if you set LLC level 6 from level 5 (for example) that lowers both values. But that's not really undervolting I don't think. So, they must be different things. But I have seen BZ check HWinfo when we made AC/DC LL changes. Just really confused on that I suppose!

I also tinker with the settings in the bios, even though it can be a bit daunting.

My recent issue was clocks dropping in games. I tried disabling CEP and initially presumed it was a loadline issue (after watching BZ.)

It turned out to be that the power settings (even though they never reached maximum in hwinfo) was pre-emptively clipping the clock speed.

I am now using the "extreme" power setting for my 14900KS (320W, 400a) and experimenting with undervolting the old fashioned way by offsetting the core voltage.

Currently at -0.075v offset and testing for stability. I had a previous 14900K and that wouldn't undervolt at all, not even 0.010v.

All good fun anyway!

 

[Tetras]

I just don't think I got what the differences between AC/DC LL and LLC values actual was.

I presumed if you set LLC level 6 from level 5 (for example) that lowers both values. But that's not really undervolting I don't think. So, they must be different things. But I have seen BZ check HWinfo when we made AC/DC LL changes. Just really confused on that I suppose!

I don't understand much of the content in Buildzoid's videos either, but from what I'm aware of, changing the AC LL is equivalent to undervolting, if you're feeding a lower voltage.

If your intention is to have the lowest overall voltage, then you don't mind vdroop and a good VRM and a good CPU will usually help you to avoid some instability as the voltage drops, whereas a bad VRM or a bad CPU will be less able to compensate for that, so you won't get away with feeding less overall voltage at different loads.

 

[adamsleath]

glad to hear you could undervolt it a bit.
again, vague interpretations of what BZ said was that the acLL and dcLL are...well doing different things in terms of how they affect the vid tables, that are specific algorithms if you will that intel has for applying specific voltages (volts) at specific loads (amps).
the LL settings values are in units of ohms. refer your board bios. it can be milliohms. my board is something wierd each unit is 1/100th of a milliohm iirc, as stated in my bios.
and as other poster mentioned, the droop is possibly beneficial especially when these raptor lake high power things are drawing so much in the first place. for longevity reasons i would tend toward trying to tame the beast rather than trying to eke out more from them. they are not officially overclocked out of the box, but in my opinion that is what they are. they are (potentially) running too hot. in my opinion you don't want the cpu running above 80C and you dont want to be running them above 1.4V
the old rule of thumb was 1.35V and not exceed 1.44V. that 1.55V max spec thing has been around for many gens. and a common interpretation ive found is that is just for transient spikes. there is no way apart from liquid nitro cooling that you will get away with running voltages in the 1.5+V range without cooking your chip. / frying other parts of your motherboard potentially too.