Unions - a force for good or evil?

dangerstat

dangerstat

dangerstat

Soldato
Joined
15 Nov 2008
Posts
5,060
Location
In the ether
For some reason (even though I come from strong union territory) I've always had a strong dislike for unions. But I recently joined one (which shall remain nameless).

Basically I'm disappointed with them. I respect the fact that they stick up for employees during wrongful decisions, but at the same I dislike their attitude that employees seem to deserve the earth and fight for things that even I (as a member) think are far too generous conditions for employees.

I just wish they'd stick to fighting the truly important cases, concentrate on unfair dismissal etc.. rather than defending positions that are both bad for the organizations their members work for, and they often have jumped up retards as their leaders who seem to think they are as important as the MD of the companies their employees work for.

What do you lot think about unions? Are they generally causing trouble or are they a massively vital part of the modern workforce.

I'm split.

Cheers

Dangerstat
 
Well I paid my dues for years - moaned that they were in Labours back pocket which in a way they were. But when I needed help last year they were there for me and backed me all the way. So yes they are a force for good sometimes and sometimes they are not so good. But hey they are staffed by people with agendas so what more can you expect but them to display the best and worst of characteristics.
 
Depends on the Union and how militant it is. I do think that on the whole they have had their day and that employment legislation is generally enough for most people these days. I also think that they can be a demotivating force, do a good job, get the union brokered 2% pay rise, do an average job and get the union brokered 2% pay rise, do a poor job and get the union brokered 2% pay rise...
 
evil, I despise what they stand for and how they operate. You shouldn't be protected for being incompetent, useless or lazy. Standardised pay is rubbish, it takes incentives away and glorifies the incompetent and so on.
However I can see why they were created. In public companies where there is a lack of transferable skills to a private company and no competition in the sector. The government could pay and do what they wanted.

However I am in one, as near enough 100% of workers are in it. Making you a much easier target if you are not in he union.
 
I'm not sure it's a good or evil debate.

Unions exist to serve themselves. They are ultimately self-propagating.

I side with evil, usually always as I only hear about militant ones. But also as <3 Thatcher.
 
I'm sure they do okay for the vast majority of cases but in the education sector, most of their actions protect their members at the detriment of the school, students and education which I find appalling.
 
kiwi said:
I'm sure they do okay for the vast majority of cases but in the education sector, most of their actions protect their members at the detriment of the school, students and education which I find appalling.
Click to expand...
And firefighters, Royal mail etc...
 
I was a Union Rep for 20 years so I don't really want to get into an argument.
I also worked during the 70s when Unions were at their peak of power.
 
I used to be completely against unions - however I needed the help of mine last year and have now changed my opinion.

I think unions are only required where management are incompetent / unfair. My union understands the requirement for business change (for example it has just accepted the need for 15% of the workforce to be made redundant), but also demands that rules and agreements are applied fairly. They only ever have to step in where an incompetent manager is making a mess of things.
 
Well I wouldn't like the workforce to be without them, but at the same time they shouldn't have too much power or be unreasonable. Just needs balance really.
 
busman said:
I'd say that makes them very necessary, from my experience poor management is the biggest problem in the workplace.
Click to expand...

Unions make for corrupt and incompetent managers/workforce. As hardly anyone is fired or reprimanded. As people can't be bothered with the hassle and lawyer might of unions.
 
They are both, on the one hand you have the indefensible Bob Crow and the RMT and on the other they do a lot of good work making sure that their members aren't abused.

The thing is, we only hear about the unions when there's bad news i.e. strikes, but I reckon that a lot of this industrial action is provoked as a result of bad management. I remember back in the '90s, when there was a real push for better management in British companies (introduction of ISO9001 etc) a lot on unions (I think it was the Electricians union) signed a lot of no-strike agreements with progressive companies such as the Japanese companies who were building new plants in the UK.
 
AcidHell2 said:
Unions make for corrupt and incompetent managers/workforce. As hardly anyone is fired or reprimanded. As people can't be bothered with the hassle and lawyer might of unions.
Click to expand...

No, they tend to not be able to fire them through their own shortfalls in the process. It comes back to bad management.

I'd like to know your thinking for unions corrupting managers and staff?
 
busman said:
I'd say that makes them very necessary, from my experience poor management is the biggest problem in the workplace.
Click to expand...

No, the biggest problem in the workplace are those who are incompetent, lazy, greedy yet demanding of more and more rewards either through salary or benefits. The Unions cater for these hapless 'workers' - typically in a pretty militant fashion - and do everything they can to protect these people who should be fired from actually being fired.

I hold Unions in utter, utter contempt and union members not much higher.
 
I have been an employer and employed and have seen both ends of the spectrum.

If it were an ideal world, we would not need unions; unfortunately, some companies are run by people who would be to the right of Ghengis Khan and the workers need collective protection; the unions today have evolved into much less militant organisations, who provide support and help in many ways for their members, not just strike ballots but education, insurance, legal representation etc, etc.

It's a bit like insurance, it's only useful when you need it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom