United 93: How quickly we forget 9/11

cleanbluesky · 3 Jun 2006 at 23:19

Just been to see this film and I must say that it was amazing. Both men and women were in tears at the end, and I was choked.

The film itself was subtley made, excellent performance and concentrated as much as possible on documented fact but by the reaction it gave me and seemingly other people it made me realise just how much empathy we still have for 9/11 and how we suffer from information overload on the issue.

Ultimately I never want anyone to get the oportunity to do that again, and realised just how brave the people on flight 93 were...

cleanbluesky · 5 Jun 2006 at 12:15

nero120 said:
People in western society are not brought up to confront death or be heroes.

That's a sweeping statement, and given that you have never been placed in such a position I dont think that you can comment with any experience...

I think that a well adjusted person is capable of heroism in the right circumstances, just as the ill adjusted are capable of performing things such as hijackings.

cleanbluesky · 5 Jun 2006 at 13:46

nero120 said:
Why would me being in that position have any bearing on my opinion of society?? Its not like you to use emotional arguments.

My point was that given that neither of us have been in such a situation it is hard to predict how our general psychology changes - 'hero' situations are the type of situations whereby people find themselves doing things that they wouldn't expect themselves to do (either heroism or cowardice)...

I would agree in theory, but the reality is most people are not prepared for the emotional and psychological trauma they would undergo in such a stressful situation (as they are used to comfortable living and very rarely are faced with such situations). Only the most hardy people would be able to control themselves in that situation and take action, the rest im sure would not be able to act through fear, even though they probably knew they would die anyway.

Its not always about control, I'd agree that only the most hardy or military types could respond individually...

As an example, why is it that women allow themselves to be raped? Even if the guy has a knife, the reality is that they would probably kill them after the raping so why not go for broke and go for his eyes? Why? Because fear paralyses those that are not accustomed to it, and I cannot agree with you that the majority of those that flight would be any more capable of dealing with it.

Yes, but that is also down the individual - and often 'group' behaviour results in very different behaviour than any of the people would do alone... but then again there are all sorts of mechanisms that either promote or inhibit behaviour in such situations... generally I'd say that people are bolder in numbers - which is why I wouldn't dismiss a United 93 situation...

cleanbluesky · 5 Jun 2006 at 13:51

dirtydog said:
Hmm that is a strange question with a questionable premise

I think the wording was off, but I think the question of whether/how people could rescue themselve from certain 'victim situations' was valid

cleanbluesky · 5 Jun 2006 at 14:05

nero120 said:
I agree with that. But Im sure many didnt help in the revolt. Does the film describe how the hijackers gained entrance to the flight cabin?

Yes, but that might be considered a spoiler and whether there was evidence they used that method (not particularly innovantive but it worked)...

cleanbluesky · 5 Jun 2006 at 19:52

The film focussed on everything that was known, air traffic control recordings and testimony, FAA, military reports and recordings and the black box recordings and phone calls made by passengers to their loved ones...

The embellishments, I would say...

The exact nature of the bomb, and the knives. The manner in which the attack was organised, and just how far it got... how access was gained to the cockpit. Some of the dialogue between the passengers, much of which was not vital given the attack against the terrorists was portrayed as a kind of disorganised mob action...

cleanbluesky · 5 Jun 2006 at 21:56

nero120 said:
You also fail to mention the trivial fact of how many passengers were involved in the uprising? Was it one, two, three or more? Unfortunately the black box didnt get that bit of info, but im sure some helpful family member gave them an exact count right? Did the passengers kill a terrorist before the others locked themselves in the cabin? How did they manage to ram the cabin door with a snack trolley when the plane was descending at a steep angle? I wonder if the family testomonials contradicted each other at all, since they were originating from different people who were under intense emotional trauma, it seems reasonable that all their testimonials wouldnt totally add up, or were they all conveniently adding up?

Or pehraps the common themes of the testimonials were used... eyewitness tesimony can be wildly innacurrate yet if many witnessed the event and reported similar things - would it not suggest a rough outline of what happened?