Universal Windows Platform and its possible impacts to PC gaming

ps3ud0

ps3ud0

ps3ud0

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While Im loathed to make this thread as I dont really contribute much to the PC gaming forum nowadays, I thought it would be best to get such a discussion started as I think there are some significant implications on how MSs Universal Windows Platform (UWP) could affect PC gaming right now and long-term.

As you are probably aware MS are trying to move development over to UWP and their first target appears to be gaming by utilising their XO published games which most of which are expected to turn up on Win10 within their new Win10 store.

Sounds like a good idea and on face value it is, the problem really is how these games as published as UWA(pps) and the restrictions that this has caused. When RoTR was launched it was discovered you couldnt (and this is specific to the Win10 store version and not the Steam one and indicative of how games under UWP will work):
  • You cant change Vsync - this is something that MS have said will be fixed by May
  • You cant move to exclusive fullscreen, which dependent on the game gives a small performance increase over borderless fullscreen - this doesnt seem to be something MS will fix since they think the new DX12 screen compositor will make that requirement void (i.e. its by design)
  • Cant use mGPU tech like Crossfire and SLI - which I believe should be fixed or expected to be very soon
  • Cant use Freesync/Gsync monitors - again MS have said this will be addressed by May
  • The rumble triggers in the XO controller only work with UWP games and not any DX12 game - AFAIK this is a specific feature only meant for UWAs
  • Cant use popular gfx tools like FRAPs or expect to see game mods without developer consent
Its really the final point that I feel like could be BIG issue and it doesnt seem like MS are expecting to relax that restriction mainly because of security risks...

http://www.pcgamer.com/microsofts-uwp-will-support-some-mods-but-not-all/

So it seems that mods are ok if the developer themselves setup a framework within a game to create and share them, but as you guys know most mods arent made with the developers permission and its one of the biggest USPs for PC gaming.

If UWP becomes a success beyond MS published games and other third parties begin to publish their games as UWP (only - which still seems a stretch) then there does seem to be a significant impact to what we are used to seeing from PC gaming. What do others think about the creation of UWPs and do you think theres any worry in how it might shape PC gaming?

Anyway hopefully thats an useful overview, its something thats definitely piqued my interest and I do have concerns, some of which I believe need to be voiced now rather than wait and see and be too late to get fixed.

EDIT: 10/05/2016 - V-sync unlocked, G-sync and Freesync supported

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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TonyTurbo78 said:
See my post here.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18725245

Freesync and gsync now going to be supported, I'm hoping for other changes as well, mainly no locking of fps.
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Yeah I saw that thread but didnt want to ruin it with the above, kinda feels like not seeing the wood for all the trees. I noticed a few of the posts on UWP were also in the QB thread so thought best to get something that has a vague overview created - didnt think it be so long though...
Mynight said:
Maybe I'm missing something but I get the impression UWP intends to reduce the development load of Xbox and PC by reducing it to a single iteration. This worries me that we'll end up with much more consol like games.

If I'm wrong and it's just easier "more secure" deployment and PC doesn't get consol content then it will probably still be a bad thing. Although it may reduce cheating considerably(only briefly looked at it but it appears it's completely sandboxed as such hooks into the game would be very difficult).
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I dont think theres any real implication of UWP really making PC and console gaming the same outside of the many other factors that are doing so - its not really its purpose.

Think of it more like while consoles are becoming more PC-like with all the recent iteration rumours, PC are becoming more like consoles because of the possibility of UWPs success within the Win10 store. That success though requires other publishers to take UWP seriously enough to make it the defacto app package which is a major crux.
Mynight said:
I think Microsoft likes the look of apples closed system and wants to get in on it to.
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Win10 store lets face it is MSs attempt to recreate the mobile App Store and Google Play for Windows so it can leverage its popularity on hardware platforms it isnt competing well in.

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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mid_gen said:
The store exists because consumers like curated app stores and business like having a digital storefront to take a slice from. No reason why UWP games can't work just as well as win32, but it does seem to be a case of them pushing a technology before it's ready.

All the hate for MS, pretty funny....I guess these are people that don't remember what the PC was like as a gaming platform before Microsoft poured money into establishing it as one.
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The point of this thread isnt anything to do with MS having a Win10 store, just like any other publishers thats more than fine. Its wrapping up win32 programs into UWAs and that implication thats caused a lot of this, as you call it, 'hate'.
regulus said:
I want to buy GOW Remastered but I'm forced to stay away due to not even being able to buy the game! The price seems to be grayed out and I've tried every suggestion I could find to get it to work. As far as I'm concerned the Store just isn't working for me and even if I get it to work after busting my hump for an hour, there's no guarantees it'll do so tomorrow.

I'll give it another 6 months for them to get it to acceptable commercial standards before trying again.
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The win10 store is a component of win10 and it seems if thats not completely up-to-date then the store just wont work for you. Its a pain I guess while it has so many critical updates but I guess that will become less of an issue once matured.

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
mid_gen said:
Microsoft do a *lot* for PC gaming, although a lot of that may be stuff that consumers don't know or care about. GFWL was crap but it co-incided with the worst days of Ballmer and they do seem to have got their act together in recent years. Microsoft can do gaming platforms, they've proven it with Xbox.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with UWP for games, it makes a lot of sense. Early days and there's stuff to work on sure. The recently announced Xbox dev program will be a great driver for more indie development coming to both XB and PC.
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I dont think they do a *lot* anymore for PC gaming, their IDE is brilliant but I doubt you could argue its primarily there for PC gaming opposed to other software development. DX12 seemed to be a direct response to the threat of AMD/DICE bringing out Mantle and then we have UWP which is moving the ideology of mobile app development onto Windows and then throwing PC games at it expecting its restrictions to be ok for PC gamers.

All I see them do is use gaming to get a foothold elsewhere, Xbox was initially created to get Windows into the living room and putting games on UWP only seems to be them trying to entice developers and consumers to tolerate the Win10 store in the aim to make their phones relevant.

They did a lot back in the days when they didnt kill nearly every PC game development studio they owned...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
Wulfster said:
This is an astute observation and very worrying. Pay for our crap console ports or don't play, wonder if this is the part of the catch with "free Windows 10" for all.:confused:

Wulf
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Haggisman said:
I think the problem a lot of people have with it is the clout the Xbox gives them. They can basically strongarm publishers into both giving the Windows Store exclusivity, and adhering to whatever conditions MS put in place, whether that's DRM, pricing, a lockdown on 3rd party mods, etc.

Don't want to go for that? Fine - no release on Xbox. No dev/publisher in their right mind is going to kiss goodbye to a huge chunk of their market over that.
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I dont think any publisher really sees PC gaming as a bonus pot of money or an afterthought anymore and while MS/Sony happily allow their 'console exclusives' onto PC then its a good thing for the platform.

I could understand the sentiment if MS were dominating the console market and so leveraging those exclusives and producing terms that required UWP only versions of their games but it doesnt appear to be in a position to and with how UWP games have actually turned out (especially everything thats happening with QB) I doubt any publisher would accept those terms.

As mid_gen alluded to, you are more likely to find publishers introducing their own digital platforms like Origin and uPlay than doing the above.

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
So its May, and the first update has dropped:
Later today, Windows 10 will be updated with two key new features:
  • Support for AMD’s FreesyncTM and NVIDIA’s G-SYNC™ in Universal Windows Platform games and apps
  • Unlocked frame rate for Universal Windows Platform (UWP) games and apps
Once applications take advantage of these new features, you will be able to play your UWP games with unlocked frame rates. We expect Gears of War: UE and Forza Motorsport 6: Apex to lead the way by adding this support in the very near future.
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https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/di...cked-frame-rate-and-more-now-enabled-for-uwp/

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
Devrij said:
So basically mod support is the only issue that is really threatened by this. That's not ideal, but something akin to the workshop that steam have, which would allow some control over mods, could be a way for them to support mods in a way MS are comfortable with. They seem to be handling this fairly well so far, which has me surprised, but pleased.
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Id say its more like how Bethesda will deal with Fallout 4 mods myself.

The only other issue is UWP specific features like impulse triggers which MS wont allow outside of games that feature on the store. Hopefully they relax that stance and allow non-Win10 store games to access Windows.Gaming.Input rather than just Xinput/Dinput.

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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So cross-buy announced today by MS at E3 which includes the following games:
Forza Horizon 3
Gears of War 4
Halo Wars 2
ReCore
Scalebound
Sea of Thieves
State of Decay 2
We Happy Few
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Obviously that should mean that on PC expect them to be UWP games via the Win10Store

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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