Unlawful downloads

clv101

clv101

clv101

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It seems that several large ISPs have agreeed to work with Government and the BPI to limit unlawful downloading. Of course, this makes sense but I do have a question about the industries’ approach to this problem.

As I understand it there are two main sources of unlawful download available today; download from binary Usenet newsgroups and decentralised peer-to-peer file sharing using application layer protocols like BitTorrent.

The two approaches are very different:

BitTorrent makes use of a file (.torrent) which contains the location of the tracker server (which is required to initiate the download) and the checksums of the many pieces of the file to download from the peers. The ‘torrent’ file has to be downloaded from an index website. The users client uses the ‘torrent’ file to find the tracker server which maintains a list of all the peers. Once the download is initiated the tracker is no longer needed as peer information can be exchanged between clients. User IP addresses are publicly visible.

Usenet is a network consisting of a relatively small number of servers, users connect directly to these servers (after paying a monthly fee) to download. The critical issue is that the users IP address is known (and associated with the unlawful download) only to the server administrator and is generally unavailable to anyone else.

As both BitTorrent and Usenet rely on a access to a small number of readily identifiable servers, why do ISPs not block access to these servers as is already done with DNS Blacklists for identified sources of spam, trojans and other illegal activities.

If an ISP were to block access to certain Usenet servers offering binary newsgroups and the BitTorrent index sites (there are only a handful of significant ones) and tracker servers, it seems the problem would be dramatically reduced.

Why do ISPs allow access to index sites that facilitate unlawful download when it would be trivial to block access?


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With regards to bittorrent, the sites aren't breaking the law unless they host material. If the government started blocking that it'd be a large step towards internet censorship.
 
The ISPs generally come back to say that if they start blocking websites / servers then they have to become 'content police' which they don't want to do.

It's cheaper to allow people to police them selves and then just slap the shackles on some people now and then to deture the masses.
 
A torrent may or maynot be illegal.

I download my CentOS CD/DVD images via torrent. This is a lawful torrent download. I couldn't however say that other files on the torrent server I am accessing is all lawful but if you block access to the server, I cannot get my lawful CentOS download.

FileSharing in itself is not illegal. You would have to police what is held on that server. Are the music tracks on there ripped commercial CD's or are they own production music tracks that sharing with the world.

Would my UK based ISP be able legally to monitor what is stored on a torrent server in another country ?
 
waxapple said:
With regards to bittorrent, the sites aren't breaking the law unless they host material. If the government started blocking that it'd be a large step towards internet censorship.
Click to expand...
Sure - but that's what we need. Many of the index sites a clearly facilitating the crime so the ISP should block them.

Shrapnel said:
The ISPs generally come back to say that if they start blocking websites / servers then they have to become 'content police' which they don't want to do.

It's cheaper to allow people to police them selves and then just slap the shackles on some people now and then to deture the masses.
Click to expand...

It's no work for the ISP, they wouldn't be the police. They just have to use a DNS blacklist provided by the third party. The same way they do already for other things.

mdjmcnally said:
A torrent may or maynot be illegal.

I download my CentOS CD/DVD images via torrent. This is a lawful torrent download. I couldn't however say that other files on the torrent server I am accessing is all lawful but if you block access to the server, I cannot get my lawful CentOS download.

FileSharing in itself is not illegal. You would have to police what is held on that server. Are the music tracks on there ripped commercial CD's or are they own production music tracks that sharing with the world.

Would my UK based ISP be able legally to monitor what is stored on a torrent server in another country ?
Click to expand...
Having some legal content on an index site or tracker server does not excuse the illegal stuff. 100% legal index sites and trackers are fine, when they start carrying illegal then they should be blocked. It's not the ISP that decides but some central body - in a similar way to existing DNS blacklists.
 
clv101 said:
Why do ISPs allow access to index sites that facilitate unlawful download when it would be trivial to block access?
Click to expand...

You must be crazy for talking so much sense like that. Piracy and "unfair" usage are the two biggest scapegoats ISPs can use to oversubscribe their lines and make maximum profits, if this affects the quality of service then they can just pull the "it's pirates" or "it's the top 5% of file-sharers" card and everyone eats it up.

If they did what you suggest then pirates would mass exodus, this is bad for the ISP.
 
clv101 said:
Sure - but that's what we need. Many of the index sites a clearly facilitating the crime so the ISP should block them.
Click to expand...

we need censorship? can we not make our own decisions. if that's the case why dont we tackle some bigger issues such as poverty and hunger, 1983 style

like it or not piracy may not maximise a company's profits, but is a catalyst for innovation, just take a look the work going on with photoshop elements & express or things such as bbc's iplayer. who'd have thought any of these things would have even got off the ground a few years ago without them identifying huge new user demographics that they could target with their software and other intellectual properties
 
Ulfhedjinn said:
If they did what you suggest then pirates would mass exodus, this is bad for the ISP.
Click to expand...
Would it? A 'pirate' paying £20 a month and downloading 50GB+ isn't a good customer for any ISP. Wouldn't the ISP prefer to lose the heavy downloaders?
 
How do the likes of Rapidshare etc, fit into all this?.

Where a download isn't a torrent type affair, albeit it is still technically sharing files with other users.
 
Once warez become encrypted, then the real fun will start.

What then? crack encryption to see what people are downloading?
 
sid said:
Once warez become encrypted, then the real fun will start.

What then? crack encryption to see what people are downloading?
Click to expand...

Exactly, SSL usenet access is really the norm now so all they can see is that your downloading from usenet, not what it is. Theres plenty of legal content on usenet.

My house of 13 (!) students go through about 500gb a month through virgin media, no letters yet!

If they really crack down on it, people will find another way. 0-day FTP's will come back in fashion (not that they arent now, but they'll become more easily available) and what can ISPs do about that?
 
Chris1712 said:
Exactly, SSL usenet access is really the norm now so all they can see is that your downloading from usenet, not what it is. Theres plenty of legal content on usenet.
Click to expand...
Just because there's plenty of legal content on Usenet does not excuse the illegal. Why not block any server found to have illegal content?
 
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